Commission Split Renegotiation

[scooter33]

I'm going to take 10 Minutes from spending time with my kids and try to give you a real answer: 1. Owner perspective: I have a successful business with X agents bringing in business for me. The split I have with them gives me a little padding to cover my expenses, and some profit on top of that. I run it the way I like it, I've built it, I am happy. 2. Your Perspective: I'd like a greater participation in your business. I want to be your partner. In exchange for equity in the business I'll offer X,X, and X. There is no downside to you because it's all gain. Don't you agree? 3. Owner: Yes, that sounds really great, but I'm kind of happy with the way things are right now. No reason to rock the boat and I've never really liked working with partners. Tried that once and it didn't work out. 4. You: I can understand that. Why don't we do this; Give me 90 days of a higher split. Don't give me any marketing, support, or leads. Give me a prorated cost that the expenses of office space, insurance, phone lines, and internet would cover and remove that from my new proposed split. If at the end of that time, I can prove to you the benefit of this new arrangement then let's sit down and work something out. If I can't prove to you the benefit in 90 days, then I'll go break out on my own. Fair enough? Now listen Champion because this part is important. Do NOT do this unless you are willing to leave. If you are not willing to leave at the end of an unsuccessful trial period then you lose credibility and prove that you have zero leverage in the negotiation. Secondly, the telling him you leave part is important because it will make him truly understand that he might lose you regardless of how things turn out. This is solid advice based on real world experience and 30 years of negotiation. You have to be willing to walk away, otherwise don't even bother negotiating because he's got you by the balls. Good luck...

I don't care if Champion writes 200k a month. What a pain in the ass he must be in the office. I left my corporate job to start my own agency so I don't have to be around idiots all day long. Good luck my friend!

 

[Championpatriot]

Solid JJarea. Thanks for the advice, this is right up the alley on what I was looking for. And thanks for taking the time away from the kids. I have two myself so know how important that is. It is truly appreciated.

I will start working on the framework of my proposal including your ideas. Any others are greatly appreciated!

The idea of the trial period has always been at the top of my list when I have been bouncing this around din my head. I am confident in this. At this point I will just have to work on what the targets for that 90 trial period would be.

If I outsell the principle agent already with no access to the calls etc I have already gone over. What current numbers do we use as a template/road map to a reasonable 90 day trial period expectations. I ask this because I can tell you right now he will have no IDEA how to develop these figures.

In other words if I am 40% of the last 90 days of policies issued by the agency (not an exaggeration) that seems to take more from me as far as leverage. That seems pretty damn good if you ask me, but I have already done it. The point here though is it has been done with to much work on my end, not enough support on the back end. Exhausting and I am going to lose 50% on renewal. This is the point I am trying to get to. I know it seems odd but sometimes people get lucky (preparation and opportunity meet) and others help them get where they are.

----------

Scooter..it seems this newly anointed *** is being schooled! I have found a couple of your recent posts in two different threads, one thread related to costs for starting agency and another on how pay for agents..

One post:
A lot of factors, but here were my approx. Costs...

-office, $700 per month
- agency management system, $175 per month
- rater, $100 per month
- E&O, $1500 per year
- office phone, 75 per month
- efax, 10 per month
- Internet, 100 per month
- office eq. Desk, chairs, printer, scanner, computer, etc....2000
- business license, city business license, etc, 500
- stationary, business cards, letterheads, etc... 1000, got nice ones.

Another post:
From an owners prospective, writing polices is the easy part. Making the phones ring is the hardest part in this business. 60k when you are only 2.5 years in as a producer sounds like the owner is pretty generous and more than fair. I only have inside agents at our office. I pay them a flat hourly base and a bonus structure when the agency hits our production goal every month.

Using your posts mentioned office expenses I come up with approximately $13,000 in annual office expenses adding up only lines 1-7. This is not including expenses you mentioned in that post for any of the office equipment you are mentioning, business licenses, stationary , marketing and many others.

For your “inside agents” you mention an hourly base + bonus structure when agency hits production goals. So of course I cannot be entirely accurate, but I assume you pay your agents hourly at at least $10 per hour? If not more, maye $12-$15 hour. Just using $10 hr. 40 Hours a week is $1,600 a month, $19,200 annual. Then assume maybe you pay a $500 bonus on production per month. So an additional $6000 per year. All not included in this total annual cost for your producer; workers comp, payroll taxes, training, marketing and many others that creep up.

With these figures if you have a producer at 20K in monthly dwp (240,000 annual) . Commission total of approximately at 15% = $36,000 in new money in.
Subtracting the approximate total annual salary ($25,200) from the commissions generated ($36,000) this leaves you with a margin of approximately $10,800.

Again this margin is still not accounting for payroll taxes, marketing, training, workers comp and several other expenses not covered in these calculations. Not including payroll for any CSR’s if you happen to have any. And oh, the very important cut for you.

Please educate me on how a completely INDEPENDENT agent that needs no intervention from you, have NILL expenses for that produces 30K a month of DWP at 15% total agency commissions at a 80/80 split does not make you if not the same amount if not more money. 30K @ 15% = $4,500 X 20% = Agency owner cut $900. ($10,800 annual) is not making you the same if not more net money than your W-2 producer???

Oh, and at the same time allowing you to build a massive value to your book valuation which you since are the agency owner can leverage for additional agency acquisitions and leverage points in many other areas of the industry.

 

[scooter33]

Solid JJarea. Thanks for the advice, this is right up the alley on what I was looking for. And thanks for taking the time away from the kids. I have two myself so know how important that is. It is truly appreciated. I will start working on the framework of my proposal including your ideas. Any others are greatly appreciated! The idea of the trial period has always been at the top of my list when I have been bouncing this around din my head. I am confident in this. At this point I will just have to work on what the targets for that 90 trial period would be. If I outsell the principle agent already with no access to the calls etc I have already gone over. What current numbers do we use as a template/road map to a reasonable 90 day trial period expectations. I ask this because I can tell you right now he will have no IDEA how to develop these figures. In other words if I am 40% of the last 90 days of policies issued by the agency (not an exaggeration) that seems to take more from me as far as leverage. That seems pretty damn good if you ask me, but I have already done it. The point here though is it has been done with to much work on my end, not enough support on the back end. Exhausting and I am going to lose 50% on renewal. This is the point I am trying to get to. I know it seems odd but sometimes people get lucky (preparation and opportunity meet) and others help them get where they are. ---------- Scooter..it seems this newly anointed *** is being schooled! I have found a couple of your recent posts in two different threads, one thread related to costs for starting agency and another on how pay for agents.. One post: A lot of factors, but here were my approx. Costs... -office, $700 per month - agency management system, $175 per month - rater, $100 per month - E&O, $1500 per year - office phone, 75 per month - efax, 10 per month - Internet, 100 per month - office eq. Desk, chairs, printer, scanner, computer, etc....2000 - business license, city business license, etc, 500 - stationary, business cards, letterheads, etc... 1000, got nice ones. Another post: From an owners prospective, writing polices is the easy part. Making the phones ring is the hardest part in this business. 60k when you are only 2.5 years in as a producer sounds like the owner is pretty generous and more than fair. I only have inside agents at our office. I pay them a flat hourly base and a bonus structure when the agency hits our production goal every month. Using your posts mentioned office expenses I come up with approximately $13,000 in annual office expenses adding up only lines 1-7. This is not including expenses you mentioned in that post for any of the office equipment you are mentioning, business licenses, stationary , marketing and many others. For your “inside agents” you mention an hourly base + bonus structure when agency hits production goals. So of course I cannot be entirely accurate, but I assume you pay your agents hourly at at least $10 per hour? If not more, maye $12-$15 hour. Just using $10 hr. 40 Hours a week is $1,600 a month, $19,200 annual. Then assume maybe you pay a $500 bonus on production per month. So an additional $6000 per year. All not included in this total annual cost for your producer; workers comp, payroll taxes, training, marketing and many others that creep up. With these figures if you have a producer at 20K in monthly dwp (240,000 annual) . Commission total of approximately at 15% = $36,000 in new money in. Subtracting the approximate total annual salary ($25,200) from the commissions generated ($36,000) this leaves you with a margin of approximately $10,800. Again this margin is still not accounting for payroll taxes, marketing, training, workers comp and several other expenses not covered in these calculations. Not including payroll for any CSR’s if you happen to have any. And oh, the very important cut for you. Please educate me on how a completely INDEPENDENT agent that needs no intervention from you, have NILL expenses for that produces 30K a month of DWP at 15% total agency commissions at a 80/80 split does not make you if not the same amount if not more money. 30K @ 15% = $4,500 X 20% = Agency owner cut $900. ($10,800 annual) is not making you the same if not more net money than your W-2 producer??? Oh, and at the same time allowing you to build a massive value to your book valuation which you since are the agency owner can leverage for additional agency acquisitions and leverage points in many other areas of the industry.

I would need way more than 900 a month to put up with your bs. And looks like yOu have way too much time on your hands. Go sell some polices.

 

[SuperWoman]

, I am more like the horn, I may make a lot of noise but I get the job done.

The only job a horn does is to alert people of impending danger. If used with mal intent or ignorance, it will piss people off.

Just sayin'.

 

[Championpatriot]

HAHAHAAHAHA Scooter, what happened, did you run your numbers and realize I was right?? By the way the $900 is just going forward and again are not counting the guaranteed additional agency bonus if you at least run the rest of your ship reasonably well, did you forget I mentioned I was not going to push for my current renewals to change and remain at 50%..This is worth well over $900 a month! Let me give you a hint, they pay well over your office expenses and plenty of profit for you. So whats your price..we all have one.

Agreed Superwomen, I was just trying to be funny in responding to the mr. squeaky wheel comment..I was not inviting such ignoramus responses (not yours Superwoman) but I figured might as well stay entertained with scoot..as you can see I have a few posts and I was quick to be tagged an ***!

It somehow is getting missed by some that I am simply assessing my options at this point in time of my life and career looking for sound advice. I am not asking what you are willing to do if you were an producer for an agent, I am not asking what you were not willing do attempt when you were a producer for another agent. I am simply presenting a reasonable question for any agency owner trying to include as many facts about MY situation as I can.. By the way, I could not live with my Mommy while I started my insurance career..

Scooter I am confused on your demeanor, I have no idea whom you are as a person so my assessment would not really be fair but it really does make me wonder what kind of "Boss" you are. Do you like gloating you "own" your own company to others. I mean I am so confused right now, I come back at you with solid facts that are probably reasonably close and all you can say so far is I am an *** and my mouth is just not worth the trouble...

This is one thing for sure, you seem to be carrying around a level of ignorance that would also make you not worth working for at your $20,000 Salary!! But I am sure the past 5 agents that no longer work for you have at least hinted at that! See, we can all play the stupid personal jab game, real fun. Real productive.

By the way, do not worry about my policy count. Handled.

 

[AZDave]

Champ;

Got get your own appointment with your captive company, Farmers, or whoever. Due to your proven numbers, this will not be a problem. Or go IA, but going IA is trouble with that non compete. Best of luck to you.

You have maxed out your opportunity with your Agent. Captives do not own their policies.

Dave

 

[rudy323]

Championpoint you are right mathematically and on paper, in your estimates and valuations. But as a 3 year independent agent that grew up on these forums, I've learned that as an owner, the price isn't always monetary. And mathematically and on paper going independent and becoming an owner is the CORRECT choice, but it comes with it's own headaches. The fear of the struggle getting started shouldn't deter you from starting out if you are as talented as you think you are ... and you are always as talented as you think you are!