Court Denies Netquote Claim for Injuction Against MostChoice

[GreenSky]

While this has nothing to do with the court case, why is it that not one agent has posted that they were happy with Most Choice leads? I've read many about how they didn't want to work with you, and I 've certainly posted about how terrible your leads were, but no one (except you and an employee) are happy with the company.

You can twist the case anyway you want. You used unethic means to try to harm a competitor which speaks volumes about you and your company.

Rick

 

[djs]

In fairness, I don't think anyone has posted that they are happy with Netquote leads either.

I'm not sure why I care about this part of the case. Are mostchoice leads better than netquote? I don't care, neither seem to be good enough to make it to a very low bar of acceptability.

I guess I should start an investigation on my own about mostchoice leads, now that they are 'better', but that probably isn't my job either. I could buy a few, but won't. Or mostchoice could let me have access to which agents in my area buy their leads, what the average agents per lead are, and confirmed closing ratio on their leads, so that I could do this investigation....

Dan

 

[moonlightandmargaritas]

I've used both. I don't care for either one.

 

[GreenSky]

I'm not sure why I care about this part of the case. Are mostchoice leads better than netquote? I don't care, neither seem to be good enough to make it to a very low bar of acceptability.

Excellent point. That's like saying I finished a race in 198th place out of 199.

Let's see who can strive for sucking less!

Rick

 

[MikeLevy]

In fairness, I don't think anyone has posted that they are happy with Netquote leads either.

I'm not sure why I care about this part of the case. Are mostchoice leads better than netquote? I don't care, neither seem to be good enough to make it to a very low bar of acceptability.

I guess I should start an investigation on my own about mostchoice leads, now that they are 'better', but that probably isn't my job either. I could buy a few, but won't. Or mostchoice could let me have access to which agents in my area buy their leads, what the average agents per lead are, and confirmed closing ratio on their leads, so that I could do this investigation....

Dan

Telling you how many other agents are in the area is easy, but we would give you a maximum because I don't want you focusing on the minimum. Giving you a carrier exclusive is old hat to us so no one else will be quoting your product anyway.

However, do you really think we (or anyone) could provide you with a confirmed closing ratio per agent in any given area? What are we supposed to do, send in Deloitte and Touche to audit every one of our customers? I don't think they signed on for that.

Face it, even if we could how does that apply to you? How do you know those guys aren't better salesman than you are and that's why they close well? Just because they close well doesn't mean you will and if they weren't closing well they wouldn't be buying so what's the point?

If you can sell leads you can sell our leads more than any other lead company when it comes to closing ratio. We know that from our partners that do track their closes with each lead company (we can't provide them enough volume so they have to go with the b-leads to supplement) and report back. We out-close all other lead sources by a factor of 2:1 to 3:1 on average. The question is cost per sale and value of your time. We ARE more expensive that most other lead sources and that is the issue.

Some agents are willing to take the time to wade through bad leads to find the gems and minimize their cost per lead. The agents that work with us don't waste their time with bad leads. They pay more for just the good ones, get more premium, ask for more referrals, maximize their time, and minimize their overall cost per sale.

Either system can work. What works best for you, we don't know and can't tell you in advance. Any one who says they can tell you in advance what will work, please give me their number. I need to talk to them about the stock market!

 

[CHUMPS FROM OXFORD]

"We out-close all other lead sources by a factor of 2:1 to 3:1 on average."

That's a powerful statement. Can you provide facts to back it up. And if you can, and your lead prices are just 15% above the others...I'll sign up...once you get rid of the $250 or $500 upfront fee. We will not stand for that.

Here's your chance. I envision a boom in business for you...if you can take care of the things in the prior paragraph.


This post was written under duress, with Fantasy Football Championships this weekend.

 

[djs]

The conversation about 'max per lead' is pretty useless. It always goes something like this:
'We sell the leads to a maximum of 6 agents, but on average leads go to 2.3 agents. Some actually are only sold one time, so you could be the only agent receiving them'.

You really do health leads exclusive to the carrier? Does this really matter? It's either an exclusive lead or not, the rest is semantics. Most health agents are appointed with multiple carriers (this does make a difference in the P&C world).

In all of this, you missed the point. It's my job as an agent to know whether I'm making money or not with leads I buy. It is not your job to tell me this. In fact, I would not expect you to audit my books.

Now, for you to either claim your leads are better than the next guy, when marketing to agents, you actually need to know this, or else, how do you know? At least, in terms that matter to agents, how do you know?

Also, while I figure there is a LOT more to the story that you aren't telling, at the same time it isn't your job as an affiliate to worry about how many agents netquote has. If the check doesn't bounce, you are good. If you are making money, good. If not, sell them elsewhere. Yes, I know this is simplistic.

Dan

 

[Crabcake Johnny]

I have no idea how much that upfront free cost Mostchoice regarding my business. I was buying leads since 2004 and declined Mostchoice solely based on that $500 fee.

I instead signed up with others lead vendors that I kept for years - countless thousands of dollars spent.

It simply didn't pass the sniff test with me that Mostchoice wanted $500 while the vendors I went with either charged nothing upfront or $100.

It, in fact, ended up having the opposite effect Mostchoice intended - the rep told me they had "the best" leads. I immediately thought "quality speaks for itself - so why the $500 upfront?" '

 

[MikeLevy]

The conversation about 'max per lead' is pretty useless. It always goes something like this:
'We sell the leads to a maximum of 6 agents, but on average leads go to 2.3 agents. Some actually are only sold one time, so you could be the only agent receiving them'.

You really do health leads exclusive to the carrier? Does this really matter? It's either an exclusive lead or not, the rest is semantics. Most health agents are appointed with multiple carriers (this does make a difference in the P&C world).

In all of this, you missed the point. It's my job as an agent to know whether I'm making money or not with leads I buy. It is not your job to tell me this. In fact, I would not expect you to audit my books.

Now, for you to either claim your leads are better than the next guy, when marketing to agents, you actually need to know this, or else, how do you know? At least, in terms that matter to agents, how do you know?

Also, while I figure there is a LOT more to the story that you aren't telling, at the same time it isn't your job as an affiliate to worry about how many agents netquote has. If the check doesn't bounce, you are good. If you are making money, good. If not, sell them elsewhere. Yes, I know this is simplistic.

Dan

We don't sell to 6 agents, we max at 4 (2 for commercial lines), and yes the average is 2, but each agent gives us his two favorite carriers and no other agent can sell those carriers. That is a carrier exclusive. We started that 10 years ago. Therefore, no matter how many other carriers the other agents represent if you, for example, represent Blue Cross Blue Shield and United Healthcare, no other agent can sell Blue Cross Blue Shield and United Healthcare to the same lead. That's not useless, that's critical.

The large national lead buyers, and many other agents of ours, buy from several lead sources at once. They can't get enough leads from just us, we don't solicit leads and we can only naturally reach so many people in any given area. They spreadsheet the close ratios of every lead company they buy from. I assure you, we are a much higher close ratio. These guys hammer us on price. We are sometimes 300% higher than the other lead companies, and yet we get our price!

All I can say for proof other than what I said above is that the court specifically pointed out in the decision, when it referenced the pricing of our leads, that we get that price in the market and that is proof of the quality (which is close ratio.) Further, we testified (sworn testimony under oath) that our close ratios are significantly higher. If I couldn't back that statement up (at least off the record) I'd be in a lot of trouble. However, I don't have the option of releasing confidential information regarding other people's businesses just to prove a point to someone who MIGHT buy some leads.

We are much more expensive than the average lead company, and yet we get our price and have been getting our prices for 10 years now. In fact, I just wrote a custom module for an agent to import our leads into his contact management system who is on his 250th consecutive deposit. He's been with us for years.

If we weren't worth the price, we would not be in business this long with the same pricing system and same business model.

Lastly, you meant competitor, not affiliate, right?
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

"I envision a boom in business for you...

I envision a boom in business for you if you will start buying good leads! You don't know what your missing!

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

I have no idea how much that upfront free cost Mostchoice regarding my business. I was buying leads since 2004 and declined Mostchoice solely based on that $500 fee.

I instead signed up with others lead vendors that I kept for years - countless thousands of dollars spent.

It simply didn't pass the sniff test with me that Mostchoice wanted $500 while the vendors I went with either charged nothing upfront or $100.

It, in fact, ended up having the opposite effect Mostchoice intended - the rep told me they had "the best" leads. I immediately thought "quality speaks for itself - so why the $500 upfront?" '

Because we may pay as much as $400 to generate those $500 in leads. Good leads cost money to generate. You might as well walk into a Porsche dealership and tell them you will drive the 911 Carrera for a month and then decide whether to pay your car payment.

We've been in business for 10 years and one of the reasons why is because we demand to be paid for our product. Many insurance agents are too sketchy (are we all in agreement that there are a lot of sketchy insurance agents in this business?) to be handing out inventory for free when it that inventory costs a lot of money to develop, or take the risk of being paid in arrears. "I'll gladly pay you Tuesday for a hamburger today" works for lead companies that use affiliate programs and incentivized lead sources but we are a quality company with a quality product. You pay for quality.

It's that simple.

Did you ever consider how many sales you missed by not buying our leads all these years?

 

[GreenSky]

We are much more expensive than the average lead company,

And from my experience, your leads are neither better nor worth risking $500 like I did.

By the way Mike, do you expect to generate any business by posting here? Haven't seen anyone stating how good your leads are.

Rick