Dateline Undercover on right now

[Crabcake Johnny]

Selling the wrong health products isn't even in my mind anymore Dave - I have them all blocked from my Norvax page so client's don't even see them. Part of training with my association is explaining why those limited products shouldn't ever be sold.

It's why HSAs should be recommended in most cases - lower premiums and maximum protection. Please don't take my statements an try to elude that my goal is to sell "cheap" coverage - you know me better than that Dave and it's a poor way to make a point.

This entire thread is a non-argument. I stand by my post that most life agents selling annuities receive "iffy" training and no formal training on other financial products. If you happen to be securities licensed it's a bonus.

If you want to argue that into the ground be my guest. Most of the reason for me to start my association was new agents being trained to sell limited products - this industry is absolutely insane. I got better training to sell Pontiacs.

 

[CHUMPS FROM OXFORD]

"I tend to think of financial advisors that way but consciously I really know only 85% of them are broke and desperate"

Granted, I can only base my opinion on the ones I know...but most are making above $100K, and I would say that about 25% are making above 200K.

 

[URDRWHO]

That is a large bite.

Not sure how you define a senior. Am I a senior? For several years I've been getting membership offers from AARP.

There are many scenarios but I'll make up one.

I would assume someone with $150,000 in a CD isn't eating cat food; may have an LTC policy to protect that $150,000, probably owns real estate and has it paid off; probably has a med supp and quite possibly has some equities. I would also explain inflation risk. If these people have been making 3% over the past several years....they have lost money. If they are not very cognitive....they wouldn't be my clients for any product. I've been doing this stuff long enough to know that dealing with people that can't understand a concept is Trouble (spelled with a BIG "T")

So the question is not what I would do. The question is what will they want to do? You present what an FIA is to them. If they like what an FIA does, if it fits their needs, then if they want to do 1/4, 1/2 or whatever it is up to them. Most American people are not hypnotized when they make a decision.

BTW you mention getting the lowest premium for your client. Aren't you in the business of selling benefits and not just lowest premium. There is a health marketing organization (won't mention the name) that is known for selling low premiums but may have terrible coverage. Because of the large gaps in coverage, that marketing organization gives a lot of fodder to those politicians that want National Health Insurance.

I own an HSA. Recently I had a person asking me about an HSA for them. I ask health questions before going much farther. This guy had heart problems, he uses thousands of dollars a year of monitoring check-ups. A few years ago he had a heart operation. Putting the underwriting question aside, would you advise the above person to try to get an HSA? Low premium for sure and you are about low premiums.

You are so confused it is becoming amusing. You said you sold BMW's. Did you sell BMW's to all people. It was a car, many people have cars so using your own arguments --- if you were selling BMW's...therefore, BMW's should be ok to sell to all people. No matter if they will not be able to continue the monthly payment or not in your argument, if a BMW is ok for one person to buy it should be OK for all people to buy.

Personally I drive an XJ6 and do not understand why anyone would drive a BMW.

BTW.....DID YOU READ THE SEC SITE NOTATION? Was it you that made a blanket statement that you can not lose principal in a CD? Better check out what the SEC has to say about that one.


Wonder why Dateline didn't do a story on this one?

From the SEC site............

"Find Out When the CD Matures – As simple as this sounds, many investors fail to confirm the maturity dates for their CDs and are later shocked to learn that they've tied up their money for five, ten, or even twenty years. Before you purchase a CD, ask to see the maturity date in writing."

Ok - I'll bite. You're at a senior's home and their entire nest egg is in a CD earning 3% - $150,000 (aside from pension/401 and social security)

Your recommendation would be for what type of allocation of that money? All into an annuity? Half? A quarter? And would be the determining factors behind your recommendation?

 

[URDRWHO]

I did read my post.

Also you are trying to say there are no lines in selling HSA's. Read my post.
At what point to you tell someone, Hey because of your health issues, each year you are going to possibly use all of the money in your account. There is a line of demarcation where some decisions need to be made on an issue. I am a big believer in the HSA. I grabbed onto them when they first came out, known as MSA's. There were people that told me I was lying because there couldn't be such a plan.

If we have told the truth, if the person is a cognitive individual then it is their decision. If they understand it shouldn't matter to you if they want to put 100% of their money into an annuity. It is their decision.

You think all the people you sold beemers to could "really" afford them? I doubt it. There were definitely people that bought them and were living on the financial edge of bankruptcy. How does that car sales adage go that the manager gives the sales force: "Tell the prospect whatever they want to hear just get them inside to the table and we'll take care of the details once at the table." Are you going to tell us that there wasn't the closer sitting in waiting, the one you call in to "make" the offer of a lower price etc.?

Newsflash.....Call it what you may, Adviser - Consultant, whatever...YOU ARE A SALESPERSON. You are selling ideas.

Now I gotta get out of here and write a life app. Oh my, I have a 100% contract on that sale so I better call in Dateline.

That's not the case. My problem with the annuity biz is where's the line? I'd like someone to take on my example of a senior - say 65 years old, $150K in a 3% CD and how they would determine what portion (if not all) of that CD would go in an annuity.

My issue, again, is there's a huge financial reward to move all of it. That reward does not exist in any other type of "month payment" based insurance sales where you simply cannot get average people to pay more than "X" amount a month for any product.

Again, this is not the case with annuities.

So educate me - please. I'm asking. 150K in a CD @ 3% - what would be the factors involved in determining what percentage - if any - should go into an annuity.

 

[Charpress]

Personally I drive an XJ6 and do not understand why anyone would drive a BMW.

Ok, now we have some real fighting words in this thread.

But seriously, here is an example of how annuity sales should be done --and this assumes an ethical and knowledgeable salesman WHICH DO EXIST:

Retired teachers had $100,000 in CDs, not much else but a mortgage-free home. Another annuity guy advised them to move it all to an indexed ING product. They told me also (and they had told him) that they had a son with criminal charges against him and were expecting to have to pay big bucks to help defend him. I told them to put their money with a bank down the street that had a special on savings accounts with slightly better rates than the CD renewal rates they could find.

In this case, NONE of their money should EVER be in an annuity. The guy who told them to move their CD money (and I know him) should be on Dateline.

 

[Crabcake Johnny]

.
Personally I drive an XJ6

Lord - now I'm fighting with someone who doesn't know anything about cars either

Sorry - had to get that in. Jag? Anytime anyone in a Jag pulled up on the lot we had to do "rock paper scissors" - the loser had to take him.

<note: post just meant as a joke>

 

[URDRWHO]

Now on that one we can agree. That stinks about a kid with criminal charges. An attorney can eat that $100,000 over a lunch appointment.

Ok, now we have some real fighting words in this thread.

But seriously, here is an example of how annuity sales should be done --and this assumes an ethical and knowledgeable salesman WHICH DO EXIST:

Retired teachers had $100,000 in CDs, not much else but a mortgage-free home. Another annuity guy advised them to move it all to an indexed ING product. They told me also (and they had told him) that they had a son with criminal charges against him and were expecting to have to pay big bucks to help defend him. I told them to put their money with a bank down the street that had a special on savings accounts with slightly better rates than the CD renewal rates they could find.

In this case, NONE of their money should EVER be in an annuity. The guy who told them to move their CD money (and I know him) should be on Dateline.

 

[SportsNut]

20 yr CD...? Maybe some crap that the wirehouses might sell that are redeemable on the secondary mkt, traded much like a Treasury Note or Bond. There have been loads of folks crammed into these type of CD's by their Securities Broker and the vast majority of those would have been much better off with the annuity; (and I am not an annuity guy either).

This whole discussion comes down to integrity. When advising an individual, whether that is on financial matters, (all types of investments and asset protection, including health, life and liability insurance), or advice of another nature, there is going to be good, bad and ugly advice rendered. One size does not fit all not matter the conversation. Simply put, there are competents and incompetents in all fields of life and that equates to good and less than good direction offered for clients, patients or whatever the relationship. The general broad brush painting assumptions that poor advice is being rendered ends up being both right and wrong.

In over 25yrs of finacnial services I have known some excellent advisors, some from the securities field, other insurance and yet others from the fee only base. At the same time, I have seen poor advisors in all those same venues; just no absolutes to conclude that a securities type offers better advice than an insurance type. This all comes back to the integrity and skill of the advisor, whatever their main calling happens to be; (investments, insurance, advice for a fee, etc).

And with that, the dead horse lives on...

 

[URDRWHO]

I do need to get out of here but I would assume that Jag driver was stopping in to pick up their check for the company liability policy premium.

I have the insurance for a cabinet making company and one of the owners just bought a BMW. He had me put it on the company policy last week and said to me, "you gotta drive this car, it is fun to drive." He's been converted. Eeeeeeeee!!!

Lord - now I'm fighting with someone who doesn't know anything about cars either

Sorry - had to get that in. Jag? Anytime anyone in a Jag pulled up on the lot we had to do "rock paper scissors" - the loser had to take him.

<note: post just meant as a joke>

 

[GreenSky]

I stand by my post that most life agents selling annuities receive "iffy" training and no formal training on other financial products.

Actually, the statement should be closer to "insurance agents in general receive "iffy" training....

I've long believed that most insurance agents do not have enough product knowledge and should not be involved with selling. I sit in occasional seminars with other agents and ever time am amazed how these people can be in the business, many for 30, 40 or more years. The ignorance about products is astounding. You should hear these idiots talk about HSAs and Med Supps. Amazing!

I've jumped on a few people on this forum for making absurd statements about products they are selling. I don't think annuities are any more of a "risk" than other products. Sell the wrong healthplan and your client could wind up bankrupt. Sell the wrong annuity and your client could lose 20% of his assets. Either way, the agent has screwed the client.

The bottom line problem is that insurance carriers do not take responsibility for certifying agents in the products they sell. Not one carrier has ever required me to pass a test (other than license) to sell health, life or investments. MA tests are a joke.

This industry needs to self-police while we still have an industry in which to work.

Rick