Dividend announcements

[scagnt83]

As for the mutuality argument, I used to buy the same argument you are making. Prudential a fine mutual life insurance company de-mutualized about 23 years ago. All the whole life holders at that time received shares. Today those shares are worth 8 times IPO price. I dont see a strong argument for mutuality anymore. Especially after experiencing what Ohio National did. For smaller whole life policies, I prefer a mutual company over stock company still.( Old habits)

Pru diversified away from WL. So did Met. That is why they demutualized and took the money grab. Warning signs.

Ohio National had piss poor financials, was a tiny carrier, yet somehow illustrated better than the rest.... no red flags there at all for an agent to see.... lol.

(same with Penn Mutual present day. IUL & Term are the bulk of their life revenue. Life revenue is lower than Dividends paid. Shady financials. Current dividend is only applied to recent blocks of biz. Yet "nothing to see here folks"....)

Those stories are exactly why mutuality and strong financials matter. I see it the exact opposite you do. Those policy holders bought a promise and got screwed (especially ON clients). I blame their advisors for not being aware of the situation with the carrier they are selling.

Anyone who has sold Penn Mutual but not read their state DOI financial filings. Is doing their clients a world of disservice. You cant pay more in Dividends than you make in Revenue and stay profitable long term. ON was no different.

 

[scagnt83]

Prudential a fine mutual life insurance company de-mutualized about 23 years ago. All the whole life holders at that time received shares. Today those shares are worth 8 times IPO price.

There were huge lawsuits about the losses those Policy Holders took with the tiny amount of Shares they received in relation to the Dividend promised.

8x means nothing if there is no basis of comparison.

And when you include the basis for comparison..... those policy holders got screwed.

 

[scagnt83]

As for the mutuality argument, I used to buy the same argument you are making. Prudential a fine mutual life insurance company de-mutualized about 23 years ago. All the whole life holders at that time received shares. Today those shares are worth 8 times IPO price. I dont see a strong argument for mutuality anymore.

And what is the basis for comparison concerning products?

UL? IUL? VUL?

They all transfer risk onto the Policy Owner.

You are speaking as if there is an alternative that equally compares to what a Dividend paying WL does.

If you have been in the life industry since the early 2000s. You should be aware of the increased risk to the client, that comes with PRODUCTS produced by non-mutual carriers.

 

[DHK]

We're big fans of whole life insurance... but that doesn't mean it's always represented accurately. We discuss whole life insurance misrepresentation issues in this week's podcast.

 

[PrivClientSG]

Comparing dividends, dividend history, etc., and IPO/stock, performance, etc., is beyond a fallacious exercise. It's not comparing apples and oranges, but oranges and the planet earth. In addition, you are starting off with inaccurate information regarding dividend paying history -- consecutive, skipped years, etc.