Fe agents exploit another product . GTL just changed app and now 8% rate increase

[DonP]

Rouse they still don't check mib or rx's . I assure you tons of agents still clean sheeting . Ran into a woman a few weeks ago . She was crying how great western kep making her account bounce and she wanted to cancel and didn't know how to . Put her on speaker and we called Gw. She had 3 different GW policy's dating back 4-6 yrs . She was paying $197 a month . She had $2200 cash value . We surrendered them all as she wanted out . She thought she had1 policy .

 

[jdeasy]

GTL has always been a poorly managed, clueless company.

Their problems are their own creation. They are not agent driven problems.

 

[rousemark]

Rouse they still don't check mib or rx's . I assure you tons of agents still clean sheeting . Ran into a woman a few weeks ago . She was crying how great western kep making her account bounce and she wanted to cancel and didn't know how to . Put her on speaker and we called Gw. She had 3 different GW policy's dating back 4-6 yrs . She was paying $197 a month . She had $2200 cash value . We surrendered them all as she wanted out . She thought she had1 policy .

Don, for many, many years after i started there was no MIB or RX. We did have Equifax inspections. However. The companies made out just fine. The problem GTL has is not withe lack of MIB or RX but the fact they released a product that invited adverse selection by independent agents. See Rearden's post. Even if there absolutely 0 clean sheeting, they would still have a problem. That is the reason they are doing away with the younger ages. The plan would work better with a captive agency force as they would get a mix of healthy business to go with unhealthy but that won't happen using indies.

 

[DonP]

Rouse I wrote back in 80's. National old line life had a 5 question app paying 130% commission. Lasted around 8 months as agents butchered it. In the old days I wrote a boatload of term with Jackson National. As aids was accelerating they kep $500k non medical limits as others quickly dropped to $50 k. Gay news letters were advertising to get insurance from them . Yes there was no mib or rx back then but many co's required a paramedic exam on $25 k or more which caught a lot of stuff. In the age of the net agents can assault and exploit a company with a flaw fast. Look no further than 5 star who was murdered with no mib or rx back in 2012 to 2015. It forced them out of the fe business.

 

[jdeasy]

Rouse I wrote back in 80's. National old line life had a 5 question app paying 130% commission. Lasted around 8 months as agents butchered it. In the old days I wrote a boatload of term with Jackson National. As aids was accelerating they kep $500k non medical limits as others quickly dropped to $50 k. Gay news letters were advertising to get insurance from them . Yes there was no mib or rx back then but many co's required a paramedic exam on $25 k or more which caught a lot of stuff. In the age of the net agents can assault and exploit a company with a flaw fast. Look no further than 5 star who was murdered with no mib or rx back in 2012 to 2015. It forced them out of the fe business.

5 Star's problems were not agent driven either. They did have an Rx check and then they added MIB. They were clueless. The guy that ran them out of business had already run one company out of business when 5 Star hired him. He's still there too.

Just try to provide service for a 5 Star client now. That level of management is the same as when they were taking business. Agents don't put companies out of business. Companies put companies out of business.

I had a trans' rep call me recently. Wanted to know what they could do to get me to write them more. As always I told him that he did not want to have that conversation with me. They never do. They say they want to, I tell them they don't because all that will happen is they get mad, nothing changes and they will call again in 6 months. He insisted he did. I said a few things and he jumped in, "with that attitude why do you write us at all?" To which I said, "as I told you in the beginning you don't want to talk to me about this stuff. Now the problem is my attitude, it's not you or anything the company does to cause this attitude, it's just me" Him, "that's not what I meant at all!".

I just told him to have a nice day and we'll again in 6 months. Except it will be a different one calling in 6 months.

If an agent or agents are causing a company problems they can, and should, term those agents. They shouldn't take their marvelous product they designed without agent input off the market just because of a few bad apples.

I've seen companies term whole IMO's. So they know they can do this. RNA doesn't ask about TIA. So it's the agent's fault if RNA ends up with a book of TIA clients?

Companies don't understand that when they raise their rates to the point that that they are only used for a niche that it puts them in a bind. Saying they don't understand is the wrong terminology. Because they are told these things by agents. They just refuse to listen.

I had that same discussion with Aetna when they were raising rates because of the no MIB and RX. I told them they should lower rates so they would get the healthy clients instead of just the ones the stricter underwriting companies won't take. That was anathema to them. They raised their rates. And raised them again. Today Aetna is barely a blip on the FE radar. I'm sure it's the fault of the agents?

 

[PhxSunsFan]

what about prosperity that pays 30% yr ! and 70 yr 2?? how does this compare to gtl??. it often shows on fex quoter as first shown..

 

[DonP]

5 Star's problems were not agent driven either. They did have an Rx check and then they added MIB. They were clueless. The guy that ran them out of business had already run one company out of business when 5 Star hired him. He's still there too.

Just try to provide service for a 5 Star client now. That level of management is the same as when they were taking business. Agents don't put companies out of business. Companies put companies out of business.

I had a trans' rep call me recently. Wanted to know what they could do to get me to write them more. As always I told him that he did not want to have that conversation with me. They never do. They say they want to, I tell them they don't because all that will happen is they get mad, nothing changes and they will call again in 6 months. He insisted he did. I said a few things and he jumped in, "with that attitude why do you write us at all?" To which I said, "as I told you in the beginning you don't want to talk to me about this stuff. Now the problem is my attitude, it's not you or anything the company does to cause this attitude, it's just me" Him, "that's not what I meant at all!".

I just told him to have a nice day and we'll again in 6 months. Except it will be a different one calling in 6 months.

If an agent or agents are causing a company problems they can, and should, term those agents. They shouldn't take their marvelous product they designed without agent input off the market just because of a few bad apples.

I've seen companies term whole IMO's. So they know they can do this. RNA doesn't ask about TIA. So it's the agent's fault if RNA ends up with a book of TIA clients?

Companies don't understand that when they raise their rates to the point that that they are only used for a niche that it puts them in a bind. Saying they don't understand is the wrong terminology. Because they are told these things by agents. They just refuse to listen.

I had that same discussion with Aetna when they were raising rates because of the no MIB and RX. I told them they should lower rates so they would get the healthy clients instead of just the ones the stricter underwriting companies won't take. That was anathema to them. They raised their rates. And raised them again. Today Aetna is barely a blip on the FE radar. I'm sure it's the fault of the agents?

JD are you sure 5 star did not have no rx and no mib back in 2012 - 2014?I recall almost like yesterday they had neither and agents exploited the loophole and wrote the tar out of it . Newby can chime in on this ..Not having mib like snl is not that bad . I recall Aetna having neither and they added rx in 2016 I think . I didn't mean agents are the fault literally . Agents take advantage of situations but CO's put themselves in that situation .

 

[jdeasy]

JD are you sure 5 star did not have no rx and no mib back in 2012 - 2014?I recall almost like yesterday they had neither and agents exploited the loophole and wrote the tar out of it . Newby can chime in on this ..Not having mib like snl is not that bad . I recall Aetna having neither and they added rx in 2016 I think . I didn't mean agents are the fault literally . Agents take advantage of situations but CO's put themselves in that situation .

I'm sure. I first contracted with 5 star in '08.

Then they had a phone interview that was a recording. No one listened to the recording unless the client died in contestability.

No mib, no Rx. Then they came out with a phone interview thru Apptical. They were doing Rx checks then. And would decline or offer graded on the phone.

Then did away with the phone interview. Or made it optional? Not sure on that. I wrote my last 5 Star in 2013.

I know they made more changes in 2014 that was their death knell.

But when they had no checks they had great rates. And took the DE card.

They were getting healthy people because they were just as well priced as RNA. And RNA was great then too.

You are correct that 5 Star did no MIB or Rx checks in the early years.

But their problems started when they started managing.