FE Mailers

[RonRoberts]

Whoa there slugger, what do you mean? Based off the LH training so far it clearly states you make:


$50 a month=$600 Yr Annual Premium

$600 Yr Ap
80% Commission
$480 Total Gross Commission
75% Advance
$360 Advanced Commission
70% (30% Going to Leads/Chargeback's)
$252 Net Income

Lead costs are $25 each for mailers. So if you "finance" 5 leads you owe the company $125. If you sell 1 out of 5 than you net $127.

So let's pretend for the week you financed (that's LH calls it) $1000 in leads. That means you got 40 houses to visit. If you sell 20% of those:

8 sales
$4800 yr ap
80% Commission
$3840 Total Gross Commission
75% Advance
$2880 Advanced Commission
70% (30% Going to Leads/Chargeback's)
$2016 Net income

$864 is the total 30% going to leads so you still owe the company $136 which will just now be a part of your lead/chargeback tab.

Now let's pretend you just bought 40 leads and paid $25 a piece for them. You didn't get them from EFES you just straight up bought leads or did your own mailer. That's still $1000 spent but:

$4800 yr ap
115% Commission
$5520 Gross Commission
Minus the $1000 you spent out of your own pocket for leads
Equals: $4520 net income

I have no experience so can't really factor in chargebacks, but I assume LH, Foresters, Forethought, RNA, etc. all have similar % of that.

I have no problem admitting I am new and if you consider me clueless than fine, but please expand on that instead of just wishing me luck because I need it. Above mathematically is what I *think* I fundamentally understand about FE but by all means if my math is way off explain it to me.

I'm all ears. I am here to learn you know.

Since you are all ears I will give you my perspective. This will be lengthy so all readers beware

I agree with Newby in that your math looks good. Pay attention to Newby, he is a Pro. Based on the $864 lead cost you are expecting to be able to sell 8 policies every week. Depending upon your area and how competitive it is I would not expect to sell 25% of your leads every week. IMO, the only way you are going to sell this amount of premium is by selling higher monthly premium policies which can tend to lead to a higher chargeback rate. I personally do not believe you can sell 8 policies a week every week off of 30 leads unless you are what I call one of CCR's (Creedence Clearwater Revival) fortunate ones. I know some heavy hitting LH agents and they are not selling 8 policies a week every week and they are getting 30-40 leads every week.

I would also estimate your sales and costs at the following:

1. Selling 20% at best of your total lead count. Ex. Purchase 20 leads a week / sell 4 policies a week.

2. Chargebacks at 15%

3. NTO's at 10%

4. 15% placed in a separate account to cover chargebacks and lead costs. (Newby is the most experienced FE/Preneed agent in # of years worked on this forum and if he recommends it I am placing it in my bag, and also JDEasy is at the top of his game as well...not to mention a union brother as well). These two guys have given me some of the best info and advice that I could have ever asked for, and they never recruited me or have made one dime off of my production.

If you do better than these numbers then you are ahead of the game but at least you are estimating your income based on the worst.

There may be some that disagree with me but I personally like my numbers above because after talking with several LH agents in my area these were the average.

Lastly, when you get on the LH website and look at all the agents production amounts, pay attention to their persistencies as well. Unless you are producing a lot LH will not let you get too far in debt to the company, but then again that is a discussion for another time. I wish I knew what their lead/chargeback balances were.

I believe that you can make a great living at LH even though again I am independent, but here are my recommendations:

1. Be on top of your numbers and game:
-Know how many leads you are buying/week
-how many appts you are getting in the front door to make a preso
-how many door knocks you are making presos on
-how many appts you need to sell $X.XX AP, how many NTO's you are accruing

2. Keep tip top records on your mileage

3. Deliver your policies

4. Keep in touch with your clients

5. Your managers are there making an override on you. Use them to your fullest ability. Call them 10 times a day if necessary, but call, call, and call some more when you have any question. Even go by their house at 9:00PM when you are through selling and don't feel bad about bothering them. That is what they are there for...to help/train you and ensure your success. If you aren't hitting "your" expected numbers get your managers to ride with you, figure out why? Do this immediately and do not wait.

6. Remember that there are agents that will stop at nothing to replace your business so write as much preferred as you can (but this will skew your numbers) and stress the importance on your younger clients on the 20 year pay policies.

7. Lastly, you will find some agents, some really successful, and some not so successful that do not know their numbers. For the most part these are agents that have been doing this for a while so they are not the ones for you to be comparing yourself to. They learned through the school of hard knocks and have earned the right to be able to not know their numbers.
Do not listen to anyone telling you if you buy x number of leads you will set x number of appointment and you will sell $xAP. Run run and run from these people.

After you have received training from your managers, everything else will be based on your abilities, and personality....and money you have in savings.


I am an independent agent that happens to like Lincoln Heritage for my own reasons...but I do sell LH business. I do my own mail drops and sell my own business. If I buy leads from LH I sell LH business. At $28/lead trust me when I say that LH is subsidizing your lead cost because I have done some drops where the leads that I got back cost me $40/lead.

I have nothing to gain nor anything to lose by stating what I have above because I do not care what anyone thinks of what I think or the way I do business. Everything I have stated above has helped me to become a better advisor to my clients, not a better salesman.

I know...I just can't stop but dammit I am almost there. There are some great people on this forum that are willing to help you so take advantage of this. I personally know of 5 agents that I can attribute my successes to. But, then again just yesterday I received an email from one and was able realize that their advice was self motivated and not the truth.

I just wish that someone would have explained things to me a little better when I came in to this business.

AND LASTLY, IF SOME JERKWAD TELLS YOU THAT YOU CAN MAKE $100,000 IS THIS BUSINESS YOUR FIRST YEAR RUN RUN RUN AND KEEP ON RUNNING FORREST. Btw, no one at LH has ever told me that.

I hope that this long post has helped someone. Because I can barely see now.

 

[gordon112]

Since you are all ears I will give you my perspective. This will be lengthy so all readers beware

I agree with Newby in that your math looks good. Pay attention to Newby, he is a Pro. Based on the $864 lead cost you are expecting to be able to sell 8 policies every week. Depending upon your area and how competitive it is I would not expect to sell 25% of your leads every week. IMO, the only way you are going to sell this amount of premium is by selling higher monthly premium policies which can tend to lead to a higher chargeback rate. I personally do not believe you can sell 8 policies a week every week off of 30 leads unless you are what I call one of CCR's (Creedence Clearwater Revival) fortunate ones. I know some heavy hitting LH agents and they are not selling 8 policies a week every week and they are getting 30-40 leads every week.

I would also estimate your sales and costs at the following:

1. Selling 20% at best of your total lead count. Ex. Purchase 20 leads a week / sell 4 policies a week.

2. Chargebacks at 15%

3. NTO's at 10%

4. 15% placed in a separate account to cover chargebacks and lead costs. (Newby is the most experienced FE/Preneed agent in # of years worked on this forum and if he recommends it I am placing it in my bag, and also JDEasy is at the top of his game as well...not to mention a union brother as well). These two guys have given me some of the best info and advice that I could have ever asked for, and they never recruited me or have made one dime off of my production.

If you do better than these numbers then you are ahead of the game but at least you are estimating your income based on the worst.

There may be some that disagree with me but I personally like my numbers above because after talking with several LH agents in my area these were the average.

Lastly, when you get on the LH website and look at all the agents production amounts, pay attention to their persistencies as well. Unless you are producing a lot LH will not let you get too far in debt to the company, but then again that is a discussion for another time. I wish I knew what their lead/chargeback balances were.

I believe that you can make a great living at LH even though again I am independent, but here are my recommendations:

1. Be on top of your numbers and game:
-Know how many leads you are buying/week
-how many appts you are getting in the front door to make a preso
-how many door knocks you are making presos on
-how many appts you need to sell .XX AP, how many NTO's you are accruing

2. Keep tip top records on your mileage

3. Deliver your policies

4. Keep in touch with your clients

5. Your managers are there making an override on you. Use them to your fullest ability. Call them 10 times a day if necessary, but call, call, and call some more when you have any question. Even go by their house at 9:00PM when you are through selling and don't feel bad about bothering them. That is what they are there for...to help/train you and ensure your success. If you aren't hitting "your" expected numbers get your managers to ride with you, figure out why? Do this immediately and do not wait.

6. Remember that there are agents that will stop at nothing to replace your business so write as much preferred as you can (but this will skew your numbers) and stress the importance on your younger clients on the 20 year pay policies.

7. Lastly, you will find some agents, some really successful, and some not so successful that do not know their numbers. For the most part these are agents that have been doing this for a while so they are not the ones for you to be comparing yourself to. They learned through the school of hard knocks and have earned the right to be able to not know their numbers.
Do not listen to anyone telling you if you buy x number of leads you will set x number of appointment and you will sell . Run run and run from these people.

After you have received training from your managers, everything else will be based on your abilities, and personality....and money you have in savings.


I am an independent agent that happens to like Lincoln Heritage for my own reasons...but I do sell LH business. I do my own mail drops and sell my own business. If I buy leads from LH I sell LH business. At $28/lead trust me when I say that LH is subsidizing your lead cost because I have done some drops where the leads that I got back cost me $40/lead.

I have nothing to gain nor anything to lose by stating what I have above because I do not care what anyone thinks of what I think or the way I do business. Everything I have stated above has helped me to become a better advisor to my clients, not a better salesman.

I know...I just can't stop but dammit I am almost there. There are some great people on this forum that are willing to help you so take advantage of this. I personally know of 5 agents that I can attribute my successes to. But, then again just yesterday I received an email from one and was able realize that their advice was self motivated and not the truth.

I just wish that someone would have explained things to me a little better when I came in to this business.

AND LASTLY, IF SOME JERKWAD TELLS YOU THAT YOU CAN MAKE $100,000 IS THIS BUSINESS YOUR FIRST YEAR RUN RUN RUN AND KEEP ON RUNNING FORREST. Btw, no one at LH has ever told me that.

I hope that this long post has helped someone. Because I can barely see now.

NAA and the old captive LH (especially under the Powells, now Southern Life) was there motto, you can make a killing in this!..was told by both agencies when I was a rookie!

 

[slushpuppyking]

Ron thanks for your post, really great stuff man. I'm very much going to take your advice. Especially the part where I stay away from anyone telling me I can make 100k in year one, which the LH guy keeps telling me repeatedly :ha:

It seems to me that the true path to success with FE is realistic expectations, setting goals, being smart, and MOST importantly putting in hard work. Like true dedication! People will try to pitch you shortcuts but you know what, I don't think there are any.

I think you start off by sending out 50 to 60 pre appointment letters a week. Their effectiveness VS DM leads, internet leads, telemarketed leads doesn't matter. In the beginning it simply does not matter. You NEED to do that door knocking and before you invest in other leads or a marketing campaign you need to get your butt kicked for awhile. Being a rookie with a $28 lead card is a freakin waste of time. Because we all know that client isn't going to remember filling out a card or thought you were going to mail them something.

Overcoming that objection and getting in the door is step 1 for a new guy. Whether it's an expensive lead or not, practice practice practice right? Might as well practice on .75 cent pre appointment letters if you ask me.

Then once you get good at that part you then get to practice actually presenting yourself and making a sale. Again, why fumble through all that with $1000 worth of "good" lead cards? Not getting a sale stings enough, for a rookie it would be downright depressing if $1000 in leads/marketing just got flushed down the drain!

It seems to me that there is absolutely a place for buying leads, doing your own mailer, and even hiring a telemarketer to set legitimate appointments. That place is when you have experience, KNOW you can close a sale, have some residuals and referrals coming in, etc.

Within a week or so I will be door knocking. I will do the pre appointment letter. I will go out there and I am going to fall on my ass. It's going to happen. I will hear objections, I will screw up, and I'll learn a ton. I'll learn everyday from hands on experience. $1000 in quality leads would be a complete waste of my money at this point.

I'm sure a lot of people get burned through this business very quickly because of leads. If you buy into that crap from the get go you can easily blow through a few grand. After you do that once or twice without making any sales (or only a few) it would be very easy to be discouraged and regret even trying this "tough" business. Well that's the thing, it is tough. You have to accept that and other realities.

So I do appreciate all the fantastic advice in here. I have no right to shoot down leads or claim what works and doesn't work. I'm not qualified because I haven't even seen if I work. When I can afford it AND I know I have the experience to make the purchase worth it, I will absolutely be on board with various marketing techniques.

Until then I'm soaking up all the training I can from Finalexpense101 and other sources and very soon I'll just be knocking on doors. I can see how that would get old and obviously you don't want it as a long term strategy. But as a new guy starting out, IMO the best thing you can do is ignore a lot of advice concerning leads and just get out there and fall on your ass for hardly any money at all.

Cause that savings account you have been adding to just so you could pursue insurance was not meant for some big marketing campaign and leads. It was meant for your first few weeks or months of hard knocks, old school, learning the ropes, sales. Everything else is just a shortcut that honestly doesn't apply to rookies with no experience.

/Rant

 

[Rearden]

Remember -- you got to make a sale eventually. You're in business to take money to the bank today, not to get your ass kicked. Everyone gets it spanked regularly, but enough spankings can start to mess with your head, as all sales really comes down to keeping yourself psychologically focused through the thick and the thin.

Sales is sales -- a lead card is supposed to give you an edge in getting a few moments on the phone with a prospect, nothing more, so as to fact-find to uncover need and emotional desire and character to solve their problem (if they even have one). That way then you can present your solution, hopefully in the most positive light relative to the other options.

You may also want to consider contacting Securus about their old leads program in your area. They've got a bunch in Southeast Georgia and Northeast Florida that have gone unworked (I believe) that you can get on the cheap.

I mention this as the lead quality is similar to that of a fresh exclusive lead at 25% of its cost.

Good luck.

 

[360]

Hey Slush I know I'm jumping into this conversation a little bit late but 90+% of an agents success in FE is just getting in front of enough people. Another good strategy would be not go the forum M-F except if you're having trouble placing a case and you chose to contract with someone who doesn't know FE UW from a hole in their head so you have to come to forum to get answers.

Come here over the weekend, recharge, read the stuff that pertains to how you make a living and post what you actually did to make or attempt to make a living for the week. There are way too many people on here talking about how to get started, when to get started, who to ride along with, what color their car should be, where you'll eat lunch, etc.

Yes I'm exaggerating, but hopefully any of those on the sidelines will catch my drift...get in the game and get your nose bloodied a few times, to me it is the best way to learn. If a guy doesn't have the money for some direct mail, go knock some doors for a few weeks and you will soon have the money to get leads.

With regards to your situation in particular I agree with part of what you have to say with a couple of exceptions. "Within a week or so I'll be doorknocking" and this "until then I'll be soaking up all the training I can" stuff. You need to be door knocking Monday. As far as a newbie blowing money on leads I personally disagree when it comes to FE. I'd rather you sat with people who at least expressed some interest at some point in the past. There is generally plenty of low hanging fruit if you'll call the leads and knock the doors of the ones who won't answer the phone or if you prefer just door knock your leads and don't call them in the beginning if you are not good on the phone.

I say all this assuming you are an average salesperson, not some kind of rock star, just a regular guy that's willing to work their butt off to succeed.

 

[slushpuppyking]

Thanks again guys for all the pointers. You hit the nail on the head about staying off the forum M-F. When a new guy discovers this place you think "Holy cow I have found a goldmine of information! Everything I need to succeed is here".

That can be true. Problem is you get tossed all over the place with ideas because you are reading about everything. You are trying to absorb so many different insurance markets, ways to get contracted, ways to do business, ways to get leads, ways to succeed, and on and on.

Before long you you finally stop and realize you spend all your time trying to learn the business on some forum instead of actually trying the business first hand. It is sooooo easy to get caught up in marketing and leads and shortcuts. One day you spend 4 hours reading about FE and you want to do that.....a few days later you read about Med Supps and now THAT is what you want to do.

Each sub forum is like a new segment that has it's pros and cons and maybe you want to try it! Even if you do pinpoint a market now you can get lost in reading all the material on actually generating business!

Haha, it can be kind of overwhelming and time flies when you are on this forum. Time that would have been better spent knocking on doors! But you can't really know that until it dawns on you. You somehow think hours spent on here is somehow your secret to success. You're going to read about that magic niche that will make you the exception to the "most agents fail within a few months" rule.

One day you just slap your forehead and ask "What am I doing"? This forum has TONS of great info, but how many months can you just keep reading and reading and absorbing instead of actually trying the damn job? Haha.

So yeah, I'm going to try and sat away until the weekends. The only thing I should be posting on the weekends is about how my selling went that week!

 

[Daytona_Guy]

Hey Slush I know I'm jumping into this conversation a little bit late but 90+% of an agents success in FE is just getting in front of enough people. Another good strategy would be not go the forum M-F except if you're having trouble placing a case and you chose to contract with someone who doesn't know FE UW from a hole in their head so you have to come to forum to get answers.

Come here over the weekend, recharge, read the stuff that pertains to how you make a living and post what you actually did to make or attempt to make a living for the week. There are way too many people on here talking about how to get started, when to get started, who to ride along with, what color their car should be, where you'll eat lunch, etc.

Yes I'm exaggerating, but hopefully any of those on the sidelines will catch my drift...get in the game and get your nose bloodied a few times, to me it is the best way to learn. If a guy doesn't have the money for some direct mail, go knock some doors for a few weeks and you will soon have the money to get leads.

With regards to your situation in particular I agree with part of what you have to say with a couple of exceptions. "Within a week or so I'll be doorknocking" and this "until then I'll be soaking up all the training I can" stuff. You need to be door knocking Monday. As far as a newbie blowing money on leads I personally disagree when it comes to FE. I'd rather you sat with people who at least expressed some interest at some point in the past. There is generally plenty of low hanging fruit if you'll call the leads and knock the doors of the ones who won't answer the phone or if you prefer just door knock your leads and don't call them in the beginning if you are not good on the phone.

I say all this assuming you are an average salesperson, not some kind of rock star, just a regular guy that's willing to work their butt off to succeed.

That is so spot on. I would much prefer to have started the way I did, with real leads, rather than beating my head and hand on door-to-door prospecting. My ramp up to production was much shorter by continuing adjusting my pitch to the objections I had heard in the past and pre-positioning my information on the next calls to overcome them before they arise.

As for the forums, here I agree, too. Have seen hundreds of agents spending hours upon hours a day getting ready to get ready and not plunging into action and begin the actual process.

After a weekend or two absorbing the positive tips, anyone here should be able to get into a groove that heads toward greater personal development. They key is getting started.


.

 

[slushpuppyking]

Yeah no more insurance forum M-F before the evening time for me. This place is a major time sucker! There are endless threads to read and so many tips that before you know it you have wasted hours on here. Well it's not all wasted, but that should be time selling not reading on here.

Lesson learned. It's bed time so last post till the evening time!

 

[RBHAGENT]

From my experience, I have never had luck with using a company to purchase leads. So I went ahead and started filtering my own lists, purchasing updated information, distributing my own leads and making my own cards....This has proven to be very successful.

Results per 1000 mailers:
.8-1.5% response - 8-15 lead cards
These are very realistic numbers and the best part is that I know when I get a card back that it is mine and mine only...I pay more to do this but the quality is much higher and I have no stress of getting old leads that were distributed to multiple agents!
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
From my experience, I have never had luck with using a company to purchase leads. So I went ahead and started filtering my own lists, purchasing updated information, distributing my own leads and making my own cards....This has proven to be very successful.

Results per 1000 mailers:
.8-1.5% response - 8-15 lead cards
face to face with 50% - 4-8
Close ratio 50% or better every week


These are very realistic numbers and the best part is that I know when I get a card back that it is mine and mine only...I pay more to do this but the quality is much higher and I have no stress of getting old leads that were distributed to multiple agents!
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Oh and staying off this forum M-F is great advice!! I have spent 2 hours on this already today!!