From ACA to AHCA - ObamaCare to TrumpCare

[scagnt83]

Easy. Just pick the answer that's worse for low income earners.

Thats not really far from the truth. But you forgot people without group coverage who are ages 50-64 and those who have a pre-existing condition. They are screwed too.

If this cluster of a law passes, it will pretty much guarantee the Dems take back Congress and POTUS. And then Single Payor will follow right after. TrumpCare will be even shorter lived than ObamaCare.

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Be grateful that the $25K isn't worth it to your family

There comes a point that its not. Is health insurance worth your kids going hungry because so much of your income is paying for insurance? At $25k you start to reach the point of "insurance vs. day to day survival" for many families.

There is no way to justify $25k per year for health insurance on a middle-class family.

Bankruptcy via medical bills, or bankruptcy via forced insurance premiums. Neither is justifiable in a wealthy and "moral" nation.

 

[kgmom219]

There comes a point that its not. Is health insurance worth your kids going hungry because so much of your income is paying for insurance? At $25k you start to reach the point of "insurance vs. day to day survival" for many families.

There is no way to justify $25k per year for health insurance on a middle-class family.

Bankruptcy via medical bills, or bankruptcy via forced insurance premiums. Neither is justifiable in a wealthy and "moral" nation.

I spend close to $25K, after premium and HSA funding and whatever costs goes over the HSA limit every year. My premium is higher than my house payment.

If my kid gets a tumor, they are going to Childrens, Mayo or Cedars. I'm not screwing around with referral/small network crap.

If you take vacations, have a smart phone for every person in the house, cable, etc, then you can justify it. Its all about priorities.

Do I agree that premium shouldn't affect day to day survival? Of course. But you don't get to have what I have then say "I can't afford the premium". You can say "I refuse to pay it" while you fly off to another vacation. But don't cry about "I can't afford the premiums" at the same time.

The $25K? Its worth every penny. Because that's MY priority.

(And junkman-if you chime in with "you should live healthier crap" , you can bring that chit to my face, too. I know plenty of people who have lived perfect healthy lives and died of cancer. You have no idea what people go through and your holier than thou attitude needs to stop)

 

[scagnt83]

I spend close to $25K, after premium and HSA funding and whatever costs goes over the HSA limit every year. My premium is higher than my house payment.

If my kid gets a tumor, they are going to Childrens, Mayo or Cedars. I'm not screwing around with referral/small network crap.

If you take vacations, have a smart phone for every person in the house, cable, etc, then you can justify it. Its all about priorities.

Do I agree that premium shouldn't affect day to day survival? Of course. But you don't get to have what I have then say "I can't afford the premium". You can say "I refuse to pay it" while you fly off to another vacation. But don't cry about "I can't afford the premiums" at the same time.

The $25K? Its worth every penny. Because that's MY priority.

Yeah, those who cant afford $25k per year on insurance are spending it all on vacas and Iphones. Thats the issue....

Healthcare and Insurance are a priority to most responsible people. To blame it on an excessive lifestyle is extremely short sighted and not based in reality. Does that apply to some? Sure it does. But most people do not spend $25k per year on vacations and electronics.

Also, if you want people to continue to be able to afford anything at all, you better hope people continue to buy Iphones and take Vacas and go out to eat and go shopping. Because without that we have no economy; then you can kiss everything as we know it goodbye.

I do not disagree that the $25k is "worth it" IF you have it after paying other necessities... and especially if you get sick and need it. But being forced to pay $25k per year for health insurance is borderline robbery. Its wrong on SO many different levels.

And the average middle class family is not able to afford it without government assistance. THAT is the issue. It will sink this country if it continues. Workers in group plans all want raises.... too bad, its all going to pay for their insurance. Until we address Cost of Care it will always be FUBAR.

 

[SamIam]

Thats not really far from the truth. But you forgot people without group coverage who are ages 50-64 and those who have a pre-existing condition. They are screwed too.


Sort of disagree. 50- 64 aren't screwed with pre-x unless they didn't have coverage. If they have coverage not screwed from a pre-x standpoint. Yes rates in general for this group will go up but not because of pre-x from what I read in the law.

 

[Yagents]

If age bands go up to 5 to 1, then rates will go up 10% for over age 64. Down 33% for age 22.

Who disagrees with me??? If so, show the math.

 

[junkman]

My issue is with the current level of rates and how much higher it is than group rates. I attribute this to adverse selection and the resulting high utilization. We are talking about working people without access to group and there is no logical reason why claims would be so much higher than group if we had everyone insured.

The Repubs have had 7 years to come up with a plan. They have none. I have never seen a high risk pool that worked in 30 years of insurance. They all have high rates and ultimately fail for lack of funding.

Carriers always come up with contracts to fit whatever the laws require. Carriers used to be able to decline groups and pre-ex could be applied to anyone who joined a group after it was in force. Now because of a law and regulation, there is no group pre-ex if you don't have a break in coverage. The laws need to change to accommodate the individual market. We also need to reduce RX prices forcibly if necessary. We allow the drug companies to charge much more here than in other countries. They happily pay the lobbying fee to Congress in exchange for being allowed free run of the pricing landscape.

We still have the problem of medical trend in every sector of healthcare even if we drop premiums by enrolling everyone.

I find it strange that my good christian brethren allude to being so upstanding by quotes like "where you spend the most money is where your heart is" and continue to spend it doing damage with war while saying "we are in this world but not of this world".

We currently spend our money on the war machine and polluting the world. That's where our heart is - at least those running the government. It hasn't changed since we've been a nation.

The current reform and budget proposals amount to a slap in the face with the butt of a gun.

@KG: The current premium level does not provide sufficient value for anyone having other options. $20,000 buys a new refrigerator every month or a new car every year or a significant down payment on really nice tuition. As a premium, it only buys a stoploss on healthcare costs of $32,800 total for a 12 month period.

I figure that almost the 1st $80,000 to $100,000 in revenue goes to pay for premium, taxes, qualified savings & college savings. This is before the 1st dollar is spent on housing, transportation, food or vacations. Health insurance to me becomes unafforded when the premium passes $12,000 for the least expensive HDHP available.

We will see what 2018 brings. Our fine legislators are doing nothing to make the situation better.

 

[scagnt83]

Sort of disagree. 50- 64 aren't screwed with pre-x unless they didn't have coverage. If they have coverage not screwed from a pre-x standpoint. Yes rates in general for this group will go up but not because of pre-x from what I read in the law.

I didnt mean to imply that. I was listing them as separate issues, pre-x people of all ages, and then people ages 55+.

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Ages 55+ already gasp for breath when they see the premium for a non-subsidized policy. 5%, 10%, whatever %... on top of "normal" rate increases... you will see more and more middle classers in the ER instead of primary care.

The good news is that they are talking about excluding health care debts from credit scores. So maybe that will be some small silver lining for those who end up going into massive ER debt.

 

[junkman]

Subsidy stops at ~$75,000 for a family of 3. My 2017 renewal offer was $20,600. That premium is 8.25% of $249,697. Many people have bee without coverage for a long time and are used to it. Now, the middle is having to confront what the poor have for a long time.

Everyone here is gathering data to figure the angles for next year. I'm hoping the Farm Bureau underwritten plan doesn't get a huge hit. It shouldn't because they underwrite down to a gnat's ass and don't cover pre-ex. It is the unsubsidized ACA people that will be hurting.

Pinche Trump's tax grab. He should be impeached (for his thievery while in office). I note that we pay him (via his hotels) to house the secret service who are only on the clock to protect him. He needs to stay at the white house. It's paid for.

 

[taterpeeler]

Many people have bee without coverage for a long time and are used to it. Now, the middle is having to confront what the poor have for a long time.

Well Well... we now see exactly what I predicted the Racist in Chief Obama, the white hating socialist scumbag and all his racist scumbag followers were attempting to do all along... flip the script and force the middle class off health insurance all in an effort to slam socialized medicine on the public.... Thanks for admitting it, finally.

Now, why did I call Obama all the names, which by the way are NOT cuss words it because you continue to say one of the worst cuss words on the planet, just in spanish.... I personally think you are a fool.

 

[junkman]

Well Well... we now see exactly what I predicted the Racist in Chief Obama, the white hating socialist scumbag and all his racist scumbag followers were attempting to do all along... flip the script and force the middle class off health insurance all in an effort to slam socialized medicine on the public.... Thanks for admitting it, finally.

Now, why did I call Obama all the names, which by the way are NOT cuss words it because you continue to say one of the worst cuss words on the planet, just in spanish.... I personally think you are a fool.

1) I really don't care what you think.

2) You come off as racist.

3) Tromp is doing exactly what a narcissistic thief with no integrity would do.

4) Pinche Trump. Even the Repubs are moving toward impeachment.