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I don't see how Rick's comments to you make him a bad insurance agent or pushy salesman. He makes some very good points and is on top of the senior market with his knowledge.
Okay, neither Frank nor Al addressed the real need, I think.
The answer to the question about agency management software depends on whether you're really looking for agency management, or simply to go paperless.
I've never used the Doris Systems software, can't speak to it.
If you're a single individual office, for the paperless side, if that is your real intent, I use Paperport. It's inexpensive, and works wonders, providing direct scanning, sorting into customer files, etc. I then use (and this will make Al happy) subversion to create a backup repository of all of my files. This is a very inexpensive way to make sure you keep your files in tact, even if you accidently delete them.
Neither YIO or Sugar deal with going paperless. Sugar does allow you to store docs, but it's not a great solution for this.
If you are looking for a true agency management system (policy management, document management, download from carriers, bill payments, etc), Doris would probably be great. I have no idea though, I have never used that.
Dan
P.S. Subversion is used in engineering projects for version control. It works wonders for most electronic insurance files.
The answer to the question about agency management software depends on whether you're really looking for agency management, or simply to go paperless.
I've never used the Doris Systems software, can't speak to it.
If you're a single individual office, for the paperless side, if that is your real intent, I use Paperport. It's inexpensive, and works wonders, providing direct scanning, sorting into customer files, etc. I then use (and this will make Al happy) subversion to create a backup repository of all of my files. This is a very inexpensive way to make sure you keep your files in tact, even if you accidently delete them.
Neither YIO or Sugar deal with going paperless. Sugar does allow you to store docs, but it's not a great solution for this.
If you are looking for a true agency management system (policy management, document management, download from carriers, bill payments, etc), Doris would probably be great. I have no idea though, I have never used that.
Dan
P.S. Subversion is used in engineering projects for version control. It works wonders for most electronic insurance files.
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Al
You obviously don't deal with a lot of paper in your office. That's great. I probably deal with MUCH, MUCH, MUCH more than you do, or you wouldn't have replied in the manner you did.
Please understand, I did NOT propose paperport as an agency management software, but the title of this thread is 'going paperless', not agency management. The question posed did talk about agency management, these are 2 wildly different topics.
I only responded in the sense of 'going paperless'.
Now, let me explain my answers. Keep in mind, most of my work is P&C, with a reasonable amount of life.
In going paperless, I tried Sugar, I don't use it because if fails in this category, it's off the table when you really want to go paperless. Your opinion may be different, but that is my opinion.
Workflow - (Note: I don't store blank carrier paperwork)
Customer fills out application -
Copies of quotes / DMV reports / CLUE reports / Drivers license / Title / Whatever is scanned into customer folder.
Application is scanned - uploaded to carrier
About 20 pages get scanned per application, making about 100 pages a day on average. (more for life, less for home, etc).
Most agents store these in a paper file for the client, I store them in an electronic file.
Daily, my computer gets backed up to a separate harddrive, just in case.
Every few days, or after I have an extended scanning session, I check in all of the clients files to subversion. This is the signed copy of the files. This stores the signed copy 'offsite', in case something happens to my site.
If I need a file on my laptop, I simply check it out from subversion on my laptop.
Now, you may not like my method, sorry 'bout that. It's the way I do business, it works VERY, VERY well for me.
Why is this needed? Clients frequently forget what they said and/or wanted when they applied for insurance. This gives me the protection I need to review it with them later, or the stuff I need in case I need to fix a problem with the carrier later. Either way, I store more paper than I need to, but it's an easy thing to do.
And yes, I've tried various scanning software. I'm using Paperport, even though it cost me $99. Well worth it, saves me that many, many times over compared to anything else I've tried.
Maintaining prospects is simply a matter of coming up with a system that works for you, and actually using it. Not hard, just labor intensive, everyone is looking for an 'automatic' way to do it. For this, I simply use ACT! It has problems, but it does a good job overall.
Dan
You obviously don't deal with a lot of paper in your office. That's great. I probably deal with MUCH, MUCH, MUCH more than you do, or you wouldn't have replied in the manner you did.
Please understand, I did NOT propose paperport as an agency management software, but the title of this thread is 'going paperless', not agency management. The question posed did talk about agency management, these are 2 wildly different topics.
I only responded in the sense of 'going paperless'.
Now, let me explain my answers. Keep in mind, most of my work is P&C, with a reasonable amount of life.
In going paperless, I tried Sugar, I don't use it because if fails in this category, it's off the table when you really want to go paperless. Your opinion may be different, but that is my opinion.
Workflow - (Note: I don't store blank carrier paperwork)
Customer fills out application -
Copies of quotes / DMV reports / CLUE reports / Drivers license / Title / Whatever is scanned into customer folder.
Application is scanned - uploaded to carrier
About 20 pages get scanned per application, making about 100 pages a day on average. (more for life, less for home, etc).
Most agents store these in a paper file for the client, I store them in an electronic file.
Daily, my computer gets backed up to a separate harddrive, just in case.
Every few days, or after I have an extended scanning session, I check in all of the clients files to subversion. This is the signed copy of the files. This stores the signed copy 'offsite', in case something happens to my site.
If I need a file on my laptop, I simply check it out from subversion on my laptop.
Now, you may not like my method, sorry 'bout that. It's the way I do business, it works VERY, VERY well for me.
Why is this needed? Clients frequently forget what they said and/or wanted when they applied for insurance. This gives me the protection I need to review it with them later, or the stuff I need in case I need to fix a problem with the carrier later. Either way, I store more paper than I need to, but it's an easy thing to do.
And yes, I've tried various scanning software. I'm using Paperport, even though it cost me $99. Well worth it, saves me that many, many times over compared to anything else I've tried.
Maintaining prospects is simply a matter of coming up with a system that works for you, and actually using it. Not hard, just labor intensive, everyone is looking for an 'automatic' way to do it. For this, I simply use ACT! It has problems, but it does a good job overall.
Dan
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I didn't know you were in P&C... a paperwork nightmare. In health most of my applications are done via the net. The life plans I've written are on paper which I just scan and fax and upload them to Sugar on my server (after being encrypted via PGP and zipped.)
What I like about a version control system is that it keeps all your docs in one place... easy to backup. However, if you are not really having multiple people work on these apps and docs, a control system is really not necessary... a folder with encrypted and zipped files would work as well, would it not?
The concept of a version control system is that it allows different people to work on different sections of a document (such has chapters) and keep all the changes 'accounted for' in case you need to go back to an old copy. This is especially useful in software systems where you might have thousands of small modules that make up the entire application. Joe Smith might work on Module-1 while Mary Jones might work on Module-2 which keeps Joe and Mary OUT of each other's way since only one person can have a module 'checked out' of the repository at a time.
How many different docs do you have per customer? And why do you say that Sugar or a CRM will not handle the requirements of keeping documents 'chained' or 'related' to the rest of the customer data? I've got several customers that have a number of documents 'chained' to their records... emails, carrier faxes, quotes, hard-copy applications, etc.
I'm not trying to push a CRM on you, I'm just wondering why you seem to need the overhead of a CVS system. I just don't see what it brings to the table for you. Anyway, a CRM that keeps a 'link' to an externally stored document is pretty much what a change control system does (although only a part of it.)
I give you lots of points for originality. I've never heard of an insurance agency employing a version control system as one of their tools. If you had multiple agents working on a case it would make a bit more sense to me... but it IS an interesting use of the tool, that's for sure.
Al
What I like about a version control system is that it keeps all your docs in one place... easy to backup. However, if you are not really having multiple people work on these apps and docs, a control system is really not necessary... a folder with encrypted and zipped files would work as well, would it not?
The concept of a version control system is that it allows different people to work on different sections of a document (such has chapters) and keep all the changes 'accounted for' in case you need to go back to an old copy. This is especially useful in software systems where you might have thousands of small modules that make up the entire application. Joe Smith might work on Module-1 while Mary Jones might work on Module-2 which keeps Joe and Mary OUT of each other's way since only one person can have a module 'checked out' of the repository at a time.
How many different docs do you have per customer? And why do you say that Sugar or a CRM will not handle the requirements of keeping documents 'chained' or 'related' to the rest of the customer data? I've got several customers that have a number of documents 'chained' to their records... emails, carrier faxes, quotes, hard-copy applications, etc.
I'm not trying to push a CRM on you, I'm just wondering why you seem to need the overhead of a CVS system. I just don't see what it brings to the table for you. Anyway, a CRM that keeps a 'link' to an externally stored document is pretty much what a change control system does (although only a part of it.)
I give you lots of points for originality. I've never heard of an insurance agency employing a version control system as one of their tools. If you had multiple agents working on a case it would make a bit more sense to me... but it IS an interesting use of the tool, that's for sure.
Al
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AgencyIQ by Net-Lead I am trying their trial right now so far I like it. Maybe worth a try.
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Their slide-show looked nice. What is the price (per month?) of subscription to the system?
They don't post it on their website... and in my experience if you have to ask... you can't afford it!!
I might be overreacting but it seems that everyone and their dog is coming out with online insurance-specific CRM systems the past three months.... AgencyPro from Word/Brown, Broker Office from Norvax, BenefitMall has a (bare-bones) one and I believe WarnerPacific is working on one.
Personally, I think the market is huge and can absorb many different systems with different features.... even systems that are industry-line specific (group health, individual life, etc.)
Most of you don't know this but the code to SugarCRM is FREE. Anyone without prior permission can download the code to the system (you HAVE to in order to run it!) and modify it and re-sell it as their own system... however you have to make any changes you make available to everyone else. However, with Sugar you can write proprietary "modules" that plugin to the base system and you don't have to share those.
If I had the time and energy I'd take the base of Sugar code (it is plain old PHP with the Pear abstraction layer) and create either an insurance specific system... or an insurance plugin for it.
You actually make your money on the subscription and "service," not the product. I don't see that as viable as the proprietary model (Microsoft, Oracle, YIO, etc.) but it works for the Sugar people and the MySQL people and a few others... all of whom like Sugar have their free "community editions" and more feature or service rich 'enterprise' editions.
If I were the YIO owner, I'd be working on a web-based subscription service too. Are you Frank? With your ten-years of experience in insurance software I'm sure you could spend a couple of months or so with Sugar, figuring out how to add some plugins and hire a couple of Sugar consultants (there are lots of them) to write the code to your specs.... and my bet is you would have a 'killer system' out there in six months if not less.
How many of these systems are written by real agents in the field like YIO was? With your knowledge you could become the "gold standard" of agent office management systems if you wanted to take on the challenge. (I hope you do.... I'd subscribe if the price is reasonable... say $150 a year.)
Al
Al
You're missing the point of WHY I use SVN. I used to be an engineer, I know very well what it does. You seem to have to tie it to multiple users, it works wonders without multiple users.
As I mentioned, my repository, the place where the files are stored, is remote to my office. Checking in files creates a remote backup for me, without ever having to think about it.
If I delete files locally, on purpose or by accident, it doesn't matter, they can be retrieved very easily.
All transactions are logged, a feature built into any decent version control system. I don't bother with comments, but it's nice to be able to see all the versions of a document (doesn't happen that often, but sometimes documents get updated).
A lot of document management, and even some remote backup systems, use similar methodologies to their infrastructure. I just cut through the red tape and do it directly. It's very, very easy to setup and manage. No, I don't bother with things like merging files, branches, patch creation, or any of the other things a version control system can do.
Yes, I am the only agent I know of that does this, but many I have shown it to love the idea.
For sugar, it isn't that you CAN'T tie the files to the account, it's that it is tedious and slow to do so. It really is that simple, it's all about efficiency. Yes, I tried it, I wanted to make it work.
By the way, I personally like the Agency-IQ system. I have an account with them, though only use it in limited situations. It does some things extremely well, such as accepting incoming web leads and running them through a series of auto-responders in a campaign. It stores documents to a client, and manages leads for you. It's extremely affordable. The best thing for me is that it works well with email templates, so if you have a lot of corresponce that is cookie cutter emails, you can crank through them pretty quickly. The downside is it doesn't do mail-merge to paper documents without going through some hassles (similar to free-crm), but it's design philosophy is all around internet marketing.
The nice thing about Agency-IQ is that the system is built around insurance, not something where insurance was squeezed into it. It pretty much works from the start. It's also built around the sales process, not the agency management part, which is why I use it. I have an inhouse management system, but it doesn't 'prospect' as well as I would like.
Unfortunately, I do a lot of non-internet selling, so it's not a perfect solution for me.
Dan
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I'm missing something here. When I think of a CVS or version control system I think of a repository that has a lot of flat files... usually document files... in it. For example you might have a 20 page auto policy for Jennifer Jones called "JenJonesPolicy285.txt"
What I don't understand is WHERE do you keep all of Jens data... her DOB, her address, the names of her children, her cars, the stats on her house... and so forth (I don't do P&C so I don't know how that kind of agency works.)
What is a 'transaction' in your paradigm?
I like the idea for keeping large documents that are particular to a client... say their policy or adding endorsements .... or if you are a lawyer, keeping their will or court documents.
However I don't see how a CVS morphs into a relational database system... although I've not used one for a long time. The ones I've used were basically a library. If you check out a document, only you can work on it until you check it back in, and any changes you made get logged such that you can go back and get a previous version without the changes.
How is it more tedious and how is it slower? Assuming you keep your Sugar on a remote server as I do, the upload speed is going to be the same. Now I CAN see where it might get tedious IF you want to keep versions of documents so that you can bring back an older copy. But is that often the case in P&C? I would probably make a PDF copy of a document each time I made a change and maybe keep the last 2 or 3 of them around.... stored in Sugar.
I don't drown in paper... I drown in data.... lots of leads, lots of accounts, and each of them having related fields etc. I need the organization that a CRM brings me... my call list, my task list, my opportunity list, emails linked to the person I sent it to, my accounts (obviously) as well as the ability to easily keep data on each person in an account when I write small group. And when there are claim problems I use the "bug ticket" feature of Sugar... linked to the account. And if I'm working with a 3rd party, such as a bank to talk "Colonial" to their clients, I open up a "Project" with the bank's account record to keep all that data in it's own little place.
Without a CRM and just using a CVS, how do you keep track of all the stuff that has to "tick and tie" to other stuff?
I honestly see a version control system as PART of an agency management system, but I don't see it as a replacement for the features a CRM brings you. But as I've said before, all of this is very personal. There IS not ONE WAY that is going to work for everyone. That's why there are a 1001 CRM systems and there are getting to be a 101 insurance-specific agency systems out there.
I don't think SugarCRM is the BEST. But pound for buck, it has all the things I need for the present time. I tend to be a minimalist when it comes to office technology.... that's because I've worked around it for 30 years and have learned not to totally trust it!
For super-successful guys like Rick who have thousands of clients to keep track of and who earn in the higher 6 figures, maybe 7, it's a whole different level. He probably uses all the whistles and bells of his CRM (which is YIO) on a daily basis.
And as a side note.... since Rick says I'm not a very good agent, and he says I don't know much about what I sell and he says and I'm not very successful it is obvious that I don't need a very good system. Right? Makes perfect sense to me.
Al(ice)
