Re: Health Care Reform Getting Close To Being Ruled Unconstitutio
U watch the sever ability clause will kill the entire law. Beet in Vegas on it
U watch the sever ability clause will kill the entire law. Beet in Vegas on it
Health Care Reform Getting Close To Being Ruled Unconstitutional.
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Re: Health Care Reform Getting Close To Being Ruled Unconstitutio
I pretty much agree with you, but for a slightly different reason.
To me, the mandate is clearly unconstitutional. Well, it better be anyway. The mandate is such an integrated piece of the legislation that without it, the bill makes no sense from a financial perspective. Now, the bill actually has almost nothing to do with providing healthcare, but mostly about the finances of healthcare (how to pay for it). You take away a MAJOR piece of that and it doesn't make any sense, so the bill goes down in flames.
Even if there was a severability clause in the bill, I don't think you can sever this piece of the bill and the bill still be functional. Remember, the carriers only agreed to guaranteed issue based on mandatory coverage. They knew they needed this to make the bill work.
Dan
I pretty much agree with you, but for a slightly different reason.
To me, the mandate is clearly unconstitutional. Well, it better be anyway. The mandate is such an integrated piece of the legislation that without it, the bill makes no sense from a financial perspective. Now, the bill actually has almost nothing to do with providing healthcare, but mostly about the finances of healthcare (how to pay for it). You take away a MAJOR piece of that and it doesn't make any sense, so the bill goes down in flames.
Even if there was a severability clause in the bill, I don't think you can sever this piece of the bill and the bill still be functional. Remember, the carriers only agreed to guaranteed issue based on mandatory coverage. They knew they needed this to make the bill work.
Dan
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Re: Health Care Reform Getting Close To Being Ruled Unconstitutio
BREAKING NEWS: 6-29-2011
A federal appeals court in Cincinnati has ruled in favor of the Obama administration, saying a key provision in the sweeping health care reform bill passed last year was constitutional.
The "individual mandate" requiring nearly all Americans purchase health insurance by 2014 or face financial penalties was challenged in federal courts by individuals and groups. The three-judge panel ruled the requirement was constitutional.
BREAKING NEWS: 6-29-2011
A federal appeals court in Cincinnati has ruled in favor of the Obama administration, saying a key provision in the sweeping health care reform bill passed last year was constitutional.
The "individual mandate" requiring nearly all Americans purchase health insurance by 2014 or face financial penalties was challenged in federal courts by individuals and groups. The three-judge panel ruled the requirement was constitutional.
Re: Health Care Reform Getting Close To Being Ruled Unconstitutio
This will still end up on the Supreme Court docket. Only a handful of states were in the OH suit. I believe it is 26 in the suit filed in the US District Court in Atlanta. That one will probably be heard this fall before moving to the USSC.
This will still end up on the Supreme Court docket. Only a handful of states were in the OH suit. I believe it is 26 in the suit filed in the US District Court in Atlanta. That one will probably be heard this fall before moving to the USSC.
Re: Health Care Reform Getting Close To Being Ruled Unconstitutio
Bob, time to update your avatar:
Political Cartoon: "The Doctor Is In" by Randy Bish - Kaiser Health News
Bob, time to update your avatar:
Political Cartoon: "The Doctor Is In" by Randy Bish - Kaiser Health News
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Re: Health Care Reform Getting Close To Being Ruled Unconstitutio
How much did you beet....................
How much did you beet....................
- 2,908
Re: Health Care Reform Getting Close To Being Ruled Unconstitutio
Let the courts do what they will at this point. Obama is in a no-win situation on this now and the nature of a no-win situation is that it is.........err....ahhhh... no-win. If mandate or substantial Obamacare goes down in the courts that is a failure that he has to campaign on or around. If it is upheld....well......then you are telling the people that the only way you can get rid of it is to get rid of Obama. He has to have an explanation for seniors too who are being told that medicare is at risk to free up funds for new health care programs (without even getting to the Ryan plan, just within Obamacare alone) Good luck with that.
Obama is actually prepared to cave on this. You will recall that the last time one of the circuits ruled against him he started saying that everything was on the table and that he was willing to see the states run everything. He would be more than glad at this point to hand it over to the states and then declare that he yielded to the pubs and the states and still made progress toward national health reform.
I will repeat what I have said for years because I believe it and believe it is relevant: "When Obama learns to be a better socialist (and he is there now) he will discover that he does not want the feds to own this thing. It is easier to just put more and more mandates and regulations on to states and insurers all while letting them technically be "free market." That way you get to implement your plan but make them responsible for all the costs." I think he has learned that lesson now and would be more than willing to pass as much as he can to someone else and not have the fed budget bear the burden beyond a defined level- all while going down in history as Mr. Health Reform. Don't underestimate how well that would work for him- and I will emphasize again- that the record shows that he already started running toward this lifeboat once before when one of the courts- florida I think- got problematic for him.
Now there is another reason why he would run for this lifeboat as well: An election coming up. You think he wants to go out on the trail (if he wins in court) and say "well we won so we are going ahead with this monstrosity?" I dont think so. Even if he wins he is going to say "well the courts ruled in our favor but I have always said that if there are other plans that would work, I am all in favor of it." Then he will boot the whole mess to the states in the name of bipartisanship. Then each and every congressional session is a tacking-on of more requirements as a condition of getting your block grant or your insurance plan being eligible for premium subsidies. Then the inevitable rising costs continue and Obama says "well the feds are providing a base amount and the states said they could do a better job of containing costs so they have to put those plans into action." And so it goes.
Let the courts do what they will at this point. Obama is in a no-win situation on this now and the nature of a no-win situation is that it is.........err....ahhhh... no-win. If mandate or substantial Obamacare goes down in the courts that is a failure that he has to campaign on or around. If it is upheld....well......then you are telling the people that the only way you can get rid of it is to get rid of Obama. He has to have an explanation for seniors too who are being told that medicare is at risk to free up funds for new health care programs (without even getting to the Ryan plan, just within Obamacare alone) Good luck with that.
Obama is actually prepared to cave on this. You will recall that the last time one of the circuits ruled against him he started saying that everything was on the table and that he was willing to see the states run everything. He would be more than glad at this point to hand it over to the states and then declare that he yielded to the pubs and the states and still made progress toward national health reform.
I will repeat what I have said for years because I believe it and believe it is relevant: "When Obama learns to be a better socialist (and he is there now) he will discover that he does not want the feds to own this thing. It is easier to just put more and more mandates and regulations on to states and insurers all while letting them technically be "free market." That way you get to implement your plan but make them responsible for all the costs." I think he has learned that lesson now and would be more than willing to pass as much as he can to someone else and not have the fed budget bear the burden beyond a defined level- all while going down in history as Mr. Health Reform. Don't underestimate how well that would work for him- and I will emphasize again- that the record shows that he already started running toward this lifeboat once before when one of the courts- florida I think- got problematic for him.
Now there is another reason why he would run for this lifeboat as well: An election coming up. You think he wants to go out on the trail (if he wins in court) and say "well we won so we are going ahead with this monstrosity?" I dont think so. Even if he wins he is going to say "well the courts ruled in our favor but I have always said that if there are other plans that would work, I am all in favor of it." Then he will boot the whole mess to the states in the name of bipartisanship. Then each and every congressional session is a tacking-on of more requirements as a condition of getting your block grant or your insurance plan being eligible for premium subsidies. Then the inevitable rising costs continue and Obama says "well the feds are providing a base amount and the states said they could do a better job of containing costs so they have to put those plans into action." And so it goes.
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Re: Health Care Reform Getting Close To Being Ruled Unconstitutio
Are you EFFING kidding me?
How about the actual Obama-Care Bill itself? Nobody read it! What happened to being able to view all legislation online before it was voted on?
Yes, there is National Security stuff that we should not know..but this ASSCLOWN swore his administration would be "Transparent". Its been the opposite of transparent!
I don't know about you, but I'll take Bush over Obama any day of the week and twice on Sundays!
Are you EFFING kidding me?
How about the actual Obama-Care Bill itself? Nobody read it! What happened to being able to view all legislation online before it was voted on?
Yes, there is National Security stuff that we should not know..but this ASSCLOWN swore his administration would be "Transparent". Its been the opposite of transparent!
I don't know about you, but I'll take Bush over Obama any day of the week and twice on Sundays!
- 990
Re: Health Care Reform Getting Close To Being Ruled Unconstitutio
Spoke to doctor over last few days ....
Even someone who might have a clue is denial ridden and allowing hope to cloud his rationality.
"I know my wife is epileptic (takes 600 mgs of lamectal and 300 of Vimpat daily), but I thought they had to take pre existing as well with the new laws ...?"
This beast will fall, but it's gonna go kick'n, twisting and screaming all the way to the next election. It won't sink in with such people until the Pied Piper of Kenya is back in the windy city ...
Spoke to doctor over last few days ....
Even someone who might have a clue is denial ridden and allowing hope to cloud his rationality.
"I know my wife is epileptic (takes 600 mgs of lamectal and 300 of Vimpat daily), but I thought they had to take pre existing as well with the new laws ...?"
This beast will fall, but it's gonna go kick'n, twisting and screaming all the way to the next election. It won't sink in with such people until the Pied Piper of Kenya is back in the windy city ...
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