Insurance Scam

[InsuranceGuru]

I thought it would be good to try and keep track of all the consumer reports dealing with insurance companies being discussed on the internet. So, I got together with my web developer and worked out a way to make a more research-friendly site.

We hope this provides a good resource for agents and consumers alike, and as we keep seeding information from the internet and receive stories from users, we'll be more comprehensive with what we can offer.

I'm open to comments, critiques, and general discussion about what we're doing if this interests anyone. Just check my signature for the link.

 

[Dave020]

Why do this? ROR already has the market cornered and I noticed that all of your "consumer reports" (LOL) are link backs to ROR stuff (do you have permission from Madgeson to do this? He is a litigious sort both as plaintiff and defendant). There was a really ugly site years ago screwedbyinsurance.com that went belly-up and was threatened with litigation (that guy ended up living in his car or his garage or something like that begging for money on the site).

Are you aware that ROR is in constant litigation over these posts and libelous comments? Madgeson is constantly in the hot seat and has a legal team that spends a lot of time deflecting liability.

But, see, lawyers aren't all stupid. Since Madgeson has taken the legal position that ROR is not responsible for any posts made by a third party (the poster), now the companies are tying up ROR to compel them to provide the name, IP logs, date and activity times and contact information on the original poster so they can sue that person along with ROR. If ROR refuses or cannot provide it, then the attorneys have the right to sue ROR as the responsible party of the post (there has been speculation in litigation that Madgeson himself has authored more than a few complaints using fake names). Madgeson refuses to remove posts (although there is word online that he will do it for a fee ). Seen that one before--ever heard of David Stinnett and nmlcomplaints.com?? Google that one and see what happened to Stinnett.

If you start getting "stories" on your site not from ROR, which may happen, be very careful. I can tell you that one company for sure will come after you--MEGA. They do not screw around with stuff like this. A friend of mine in SoCal has some rather basic information on his web site about them....see for yourself:

http://www.steveshorr.com/PDF_s/nase_attorney_letter.pdf

You can probably expect to receive something like this soon.

Also, are you a licensed agent? I would suspect that a derrogatory heresay web site like you are proposing could be a violation of your sales contracts with your insurers. Did you run this by your attorney first?

Might want to make sure that your PPL is paid up, or you can contact our friend PPL on here and his people can deflect the "scarry" letters that may be coming your way.

 

[Crabcake Johnny]

Agree - that site will get you sued quickly. Doesn't matter if they "can" sue - you'll still be served and spend countless thousands on legal fees. I'd run from this type of business like the plague.

The second you elude that a carrier is a "scam" they'll be more than happy to pit their billions against your...we'll, how much do you have compared to UHC?

 

[InsuranceGuru]

Yeah, we knew there was a lot of set up involved, a LOT of research involved. I'm married to an attorney and have good relationships with all the attorneys she went to law school with... legal rights and responsibilities are always an ongoing mess.

We had to weigh this against how it helps people, having a central location to see what's going on and hopefully find it before getting mixed up with a company that has a lot of people upset with them.

Is it worth the risk? We'll see if it helps the public. As far as Ed Magedson, I politely asked him if he would have any objection to our site linking to specific reports. I did this in good faith that he would appreciate our efforts - he never replied (and could have just been very busy, I don't know). But, the problem is this: you cannot copyright website links. Once it's published on the web, it's public and available. There are no copyright issues, there is no harm in linking to RoR (really, these are relevant backlinks to his site, this only improves RoR's web presence), and I have yet to find case law saying otherwise. If it's something we need to address down the road, then we will. At the moment, we are seeding content from a public source.

We have a page that discusses the legal issues and what we understand to be our rights and responsibilities under the relevant law. Our site is a consumer forum just like the dozens of others out there, and it's high time a forum like this exist for insurance. Sorry you don't see the value, but I think as we grow we'll be able to offer more information over time. I guess we'll see.

 

[Dave020]

ROR is the internet complaint version of the Jerry Springer show. Most of the complaints on ROR have little or no merit, are often personal attacks, and very often are rival businesses posting libelously about competitors.

Everyone has been screwed by insurance, screwed by their mechanic, screwed by cashcall or payday advances, screwed by amway, screwed by George Bush, whatever. Most of the time it's just some illiterate soul who is upset that the meter reader trampled his prize petunias and wants PG & E to pay for it.

Look up the number of complaints about cashcall on there. Not one of those people did not know what they were getting into when they took the money. They don't want to pay it back but they sure as f**k took the money. Heck, there are hundreds of posts about some place called Tupper Lake, NY!

BTW, there are more posts about Tupper Lake, NY then about all health insurers combined if you subtract MEGA. HMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM! There are also more complaints about some guy named Claude Raptis than all non-Mega health insurers combined. Then there is the whacko who claims he was discrimated against by every Motel 6 in the USA. That runs dozens of threads and hundreds of posts.

No self-respecting agent would post on a forum such as yours. No insurance carrier would lower themselves to dignify the ROR-style garbage that the tin-hat wearers will post on there.

BTW, as I stated above, your idea is hardly original, screwedbyinsurance.com was around years ago, one of the original anti-insurance forums. Go there are read the cached posts, utter illiterate tripe and garbage.

 

[InsuranceGuru]

I see that you feel very strongly about this, Dave. Honestly, I respect your opinion even if you don't respect my honest effort to improve the industry.

The RoR is one of the biggest sources of consumer reports online, and people just like you have the right to express themselves accordingly. Just as we have a right to express ourselves, online forums like the RoR or ISN must exist to allow consumers to express their grievances. It's not for you or me to decide who is right and who is wrong, and people can determine for themselves who to believe.

We provide links to hundreds of websites, not JUST RoR. Our Resource page is dedicated to directing traffic to the appropriate sources including the NAIC, State Departments of Insurance, Insurance Rating websites, Forums, and compelling articles about insurance. The vast amount of RoRs is not the only place we direct traffic, just so we're clear.

Our purpose is not to degrade insurance companies that provide quality service to their customers, and the development of the site has been meticulous in attempting to preserve the industry in spite of the high number of complaints against business entities in our industry. While I understand your concerns, I cannot, in good faith, play the role of 'arbitrator' or 'decider' in who is right and who is wrong. The simple reality is that people have a right to voice their concerns, and when a user submits content for other visitors and users to learn from experience, then that service should be provided to anyone searching for it.

 

[Crabcake Johnny]

Sorry but I'm with Dave. Anonymous and unverified complaints are as worthless as tits on a bull.

 

[Winter_123]

I see that you feel very strongly about this, Dave. Honestly, I respect your opinion even if you don't respect my honest effort to improve the industry.

The RoR is one of the biggest sources of consumer reports online, and people just like you have the right to express themselves accordingly. Just as we have a right to express ourselves, online forums like the RoR or ISN must exist to allow consumers to express their grievances. It's not for you or me to decide who is right and who is wrong, and people can determine for themselves who to believe.

We provide links to hundreds of websites, not JUST RoR. Our Resource page is dedicated to directing traffic to the appropriate sources including the NAIC, State Departments of Insurance, Insurance Rating websites, Forums, and compelling articles about insurance. The vast amount of RoRs is not the only place we direct traffic, just so we're clear.

Our purpose is not to degrade insurance companies that provide quality service to their customers, and the development of the site has been meticulous in attempting to preserve the industry in spite of the high number of complaints against business entities in our industry. While I understand your concerns, I cannot, in good faith, play the role of 'arbitrator' or 'decider' in who is right and who is wrong. The simple reality is that people have a right to voice their concerns, and when a user submits content for other visitors and users to learn from experience, then that service should be provided to anyone searching for it.

Is your insurance business up and running or are you like Al where you have decided to just channel your energy into being an industry gadfly as a substitute for being successful. I thought it was just a few short months or weeks ago that you were interviewing for jobs.

 

[Dave020]

I see that you feel very strongly about this, Dave. Honestly, I respect your opinion even if you don't respect my honest effort to improve the industry.

The RoR is one of the biggest sources of consumer reports online, and people just like you have the right to express themselves accordingly. Just as we have a right to express ourselves, online forums like the RoR or ISN must exist to allow consumers to express their grievances. It's not for you or me to decide who is right and who is wrong, and people can determine for themselves who to believe.

We provide links to hundreds of websites, not JUST RoR. Our Resource page is dedicated to directing traffic to the appropriate sources including the NAIC, State Departments of Insurance, Insurance Rating websites, Forums, and compelling articles about insurance. The vast amount of RoRs is not the only place we direct traffic, just so we're clear.

Our purpose is not to degrade insurance companies that provide quality service to their customers, and the development of the site has been meticulous in attempting to preserve the industry in spite of the high number of complaints against business entities in our industry. While I understand your concerns, I cannot, in good faith, play the role of 'arbitrator' or 'decider' in who is right and who is wrong. The simple reality is that people have a right to voice their concerns, and when a user submits content for other visitors and users to learn from experience, then that service should be provided to anyone searching for it.

It's fine, I just feel that these kinds of sites provide neither fair nor balanced information.

 

[bill3173]

It's fine, I just feel that these kinds of sites provide neither fair nor balanced information.

Based on the info. you shared in an earlier post, do you think the agents that post critical remarks of the carriers that they represent put themselves at risk?

What about the lead companies? Could they sue individual agents for comments on this board?