Looking For a Whole Life Policy
- Thread starter stevew7
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- 15,041
Oh this stopped being about his purchase a long time ago
So what flavor kool-aid do they slurp in Milwaukee?
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- 15,041
I hear they toast with the Beast. About all those new agents they can afford.
Again I ask, is there worst punishment than being made to pay your own way to Milwaukee in August?
Again I ask, is there worst punishment than being made to pay your own way to Milwaukee in August?
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Somehow I after 29 pages I am seeing this thread for the first time......if I would have known that there was this much silliness going on over here I would I threw in my two cents awhile ago.....here they are anyway......
This conversation is reminding my old NML days and the average peronsa of the mostly younger field-force at mother mutual. During my NML days I was fortunate enough to speak at company meetings and was regulary in the top 50-100 producers, however unlike most of the kool-aid drinkers who idiolized the company's top 20 guys who are recognized up on stage at annual-meeting, so many times I was ashamed to be associated with the same company as many of these top guys because of their all too often one-sided industry rhetoric they would spew while putting on full display their overall distasteful, egomaniac personalities.....and many of the GA's were worse! Don't get me wrong, there are a lot of really good people and good ole boys with great intentions who are producers at NML.....however there are also far too many guys doing lots of premium who know very little of our industry outside of what mother mutual or the American College feeds them. My biggest criticism of the average NML producer is that they are completely oblivious to the fact that this LIFE INSURANCE they have so much pride for has generally the lowest IRR on death benefit in the industry......all they want to talk about is cash-value IRR.........we should be selling permanent death benefit and the fact is NML's death benefit is the most expensive.
Chuck has spoken about NML's great cash-value IRR, which on illusions...I mean illustrations they are always the highest of all whole life companies. However he obviously doesn't understand one key point.....although NML indeed usually does have the highest cash-value IRR however it is one of the more expensive companies if you actually ever need to access any of the cash. I'll stay away from the whole direct recognition point to point out something I feel is more basic and important here.....NML's loan rate is amongst the highest in the industry at 8%.....who cares how great the cash-value....what it always comes down to is what am I "paying" to access my own money. In a lower dividend environment like Northwestern has seen recently, as they dividend rate is now lower than both Guardian and Mass's, this makes a real difference.
This conversation is reminding my old NML days and the average peronsa of the mostly younger field-force at mother mutual. During my NML days I was fortunate enough to speak at company meetings and was regulary in the top 50-100 producers, however unlike most of the kool-aid drinkers who idiolized the company's top 20 guys who are recognized up on stage at annual-meeting, so many times I was ashamed to be associated with the same company as many of these top guys because of their all too often one-sided industry rhetoric they would spew while putting on full display their overall distasteful, egomaniac personalities.....and many of the GA's were worse! Don't get me wrong, there are a lot of really good people and good ole boys with great intentions who are producers at NML.....however there are also far too many guys doing lots of premium who know very little of our industry outside of what mother mutual or the American College feeds them. My biggest criticism of the average NML producer is that they are completely oblivious to the fact that this LIFE INSURANCE they have so much pride for has generally the lowest IRR on death benefit in the industry......all they want to talk about is cash-value IRR.........we should be selling permanent death benefit and the fact is NML's death benefit is the most expensive.
Chuck has spoken about NML's great cash-value IRR, which on illusions...I mean illustrations they are always the highest of all whole life companies. However he obviously doesn't understand one key point.....although NML indeed usually does have the highest cash-value IRR however it is one of the more expensive companies if you actually ever need to access any of the cash. I'll stay away from the whole direct recognition point to point out something I feel is more basic and important here.....NML's loan rate is amongst the highest in the industry at 8%.....who cares how great the cash-value....what it always comes down to is what am I "paying" to access my own money. In a lower dividend environment like Northwestern has seen recently, as they dividend rate is now lower than both Guardian and Mass's, this makes a real difference.
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Oh man, can you say pack pedal. Please admit, if to no one else than at least yourself, that was terribly weak.
Kind of like WL is like buying a house and term is like renting, ay?
Look, the reason a 1035 can avoid MEC status and the use of a rollover IRA to receive qualified funds have absolutely nothing to do with one another. Rollover IRA's are different IRA's, look at a darn B/D's new business paperwork. If you're not registered, ask someone in your office who is. You'll notice there are different boxes to check off.
If you truly understand securities and cash value insurance products, this analogy seems silly. If you know people who work in compliance and like his/her jobs a bit too much, to know this analogy is dangerous to your future in the industry. I'm not even subject to the long arm of FINRA any longer and I wouldn't go making this sort of statement.
All right, because I've been accused in the past of taking things out of context, I'm pasting the whole thing to let you know I read it all, but now I'm going to break it down a bit and speak to some individual pieces here. Hopefully that will past muster with you.
I got a pretty good kick out of this. Is this the new sales training for competition at NML? You can't run my products, you don't what we got! I've sold my fair share of insurance and I've sold several contracts from a few different companies, as well as run quotes from many many more. I've been in competitive situations with NML and I've not found them to be a stand out. I also have had access to particulars concerning elements of NML's contracts, so I think I can speak intelligently (isn't that key phraseology on the NML web site for default agent pages?) about what you're doing.
Ok, first we were talking about replacing a 10 pay WL policy 10 years down the the road, but now we're talking about a 50k UL policy that was purchased who cares how many years ago, fine we can change the playing field a bit. Couple of things:
Again, you've now dropped the guaranteed db down to 30k If the prospect decides to yank the 5k out the UL db might be reduced dollar for dollar leaving 45k. If we yank (note not lend out) the 5k from the NML policy our db drops to 30k, or there about. How is this better, again?
Now, you'd think yourself wise to say, but if we did a policy loan the reduction in db would be the same. But what if you were dealing with a UL that had a wash loan provision, and if it were in it's 10th + policy year, there's a good chance it could be. How is NML's rather terrible use of Direct Recognition (and that's not an attack on DR, simply a criticism of how NML does it) going to keep up without a net increased outlay from the client?
As far as cash value being eaten up by UL fees, your hypothetical client is 37. No 37 year old is in need of serious worry about UL COI eating his or her cash value, even if he or she owns the crappiest UL out there.
And FYI: cash value in UL is guaranteed to increase as well, it's just the expenses that sometimes, much later in life for a very poorly funded policy, that tear down the cash balance.
And before you go suggesting I'm a UL proponent, I'd suggest you take some time to look around the Life Insurance forum concerning other times I've been involved in conversations about UL. Or ask SCAgent about my position on UL (haaaa!). ;-)
No, first and foremost I'm in the business of risk management, not in the business of trying to pimp cash value life insurance for ROR. Sure I believe cash balances in life contracts is a very sweet thing. But I'm not about to rip down something just because the contract doesn't have my Company's name on it (or in my case my favorite or most used company's name) and my illustration says if they replace they'll have more money. There's a lot more to look at than just the dividend performance from a ROR point of view and which ledger shows the largest number in 40 years.
The bad year reference was regarding NML or any company that touts dividend performance falling below competitors for dividend rate. If I buy you because you pay a high dividend, and then you stop paying a high dividend, maybe it's time to buy someone else. There are some pretty big competitors to NML who have been around just as long and longer and paying dividends just as long or longer, so the historical pitch doesn't really work.
I mentioned the other items to reference the fact that no one really knows. Haven't they taught you not to worry about the things you can't control? Or does NML avoid that since dividend performance would be one of those things and they love to talk about that.
Yes, NML is not an option for me. Several years ago I looked at going career with them. Decided not to. I've been in a few competitive situations with them, and never regretted that they weren't an option. But hey, being a fanboy for a company can sometimes be a good thing. It builds an energy that people will buy regardless. But for stop with the dumb analogies and just focus on doing the right thing.
(PS: I've sent you a PM concerning something you should address immediately, trust me you'd be wise to take my advice on this one. I'm not going to call it out here, because there's no need to call attention to it)
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- 10,711
lol. Yes, he is a WL guy through and through.... I think I was supposed to send him some UL software so he could actually run some UL illustrations sometime...
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Exactly, I pointed this out a few times... who cares if you have a bit more $ when it cost you more to access it!
If you found "the best policy" for each variable thats important to a PI policy, you would have 8 different policies.
The key is to find a well rounded policy.
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Chuck,
I exited the conversation because you refuse to be impartial in your views.
You have asked me for an illustration; after going back and actually reading your post, I see what your talking about.
I will give you a 4% illustration, but you have to show me an illustration first:
Show me a 45 year old in top health, with a CV of $500K at age 70.
Distributions start at age 70 & are level to age 100, and max out the distributions.
Lets see how well NWM performs when it comes to income.
I will show a comparison with the same CV at age 70.... and your requested illustration (which still does not look shabby at all)
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- 7,790
Oh this stopped being about his purchase a long time ago
I didn't know that because I stopped reading this thread a long time ago. Thanks for the heads up.
from experience I recommend that you look around for the best policy out there, as there are too many to choose from.
- 15,041
Nothing like reviving a thread with crap.
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