Medicare Compliant Annuities

[insuranceexec]

A community spouse's monthly income allowance (between $1,750 and $2,739 for 2009), as long as the income is actually made available to her/him;
A family monthly income allowance, if there are other family members living in the household;
An amount for medical expenses incurred by the spouse who is in the medical facility.
The community spouse's monthly income allowance is the amount of the institutionalized spouse's income that is actually made available to the community spouse. If the community spouse has income of his or her own, the amount of that income is deducted from the community spouse's monthly income allowance. Similarly, any income of family members, such as dependent children, is deducted from the family monthly income allowance.

Once the above items are deducted from the institutionalized spouse's income, any remaining income is contributed toward the cost of his or her care in the institution.

Please expalin to me what the term that I have in bold means.

The reason that Post DRA uses the term "Actuarially sound" is to make sure that you do not annuitize the money for a period beyond the life expectancy of the institunialized spouse.

By your own reasoning they could annuitize the money for a period as short as a year; if a company allowed it. And the money would be totally exempt. This is not true; therefore you are incorrect! By your own admission you stated that a SPIA annuity would not work with this situation.

Why would the SPIA not work?

The term that you are using is referring to the amount or "allowance" the community spouse is allowed to keep to maintain his/her lifestyle while keeping their dignity.

You my firend are confusing Pre-DRA with Post-DRA. Stating that the Half a loaf stretegy has been nullified. When in fact it has been changed to accomadate the new laws. I hope this helps......
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Another point to consider is that every state will have their own set of laws regarding "Medicaid Qualification." Check your state laws

No one, including myself, should try to say that just becuase they understand the Medicaid laws in their state; makes them an expert in all states.

Which is why you must be licensed in the state in which you practice; to be familiar with the laws of your respective state. I personally think to badger one another about laws in another's respective state is arrogant, and I apologize for coming across this way. Have a good day!

 

[Mr_Ed]

Insurancexec,

You highlighted in your last post this statement:

A community spouse's monthly income allowance (between $1,750 and $2,739 for 2009)


Are you saying that a community spouse can have no more than $2,739 of monthly income?

 

[insuranceexec]

Insurancexec,

You highlighted in your last post this statement:

A community spouse's monthly income allowance (between $1,750 and $2,739 for 2009)


Are you saying that a community spouse can have no more than $2,739 of monthly income?

These are not my words; they came from www.elderlawanswers.com

I thought you would consider this a viable source; considering that you quoted them several posts back.

It is up to the courts and the attorney's to figure how they apply to each person with their own particular case. The judicial branch's sole responsiblity is to "interpret" the law. That's right it is an interpretation; which is why it is always open to be over-turned.

I also highlighted this:

If the community spouse has income of his or her own, the amount of that income is deducted from the community spouse's monthly income allowance.

What say you?

 

[Mr_Ed]

That quote did not come from www.elderlawanswers.com
Elderlawanswers uses the actual legal terms.
There's no such thing as a "community spouse's monthly income allowance".


But, that's besides the fact.

I say that Medicaid does NOT put any limit on the income for the community spouse.

What say you?

 

[insuranceexec]

That quote did not come from www.elderlawanswers.com
Elderlawanswers uses the actual legal terms.
There's no such thing as a "community spouse's monthly income allowance".


But, that's besides the fact.

I say that Medicaid does NOT put any limit on the income for the community spouse.

What say you?

You do realize that I am talking about "income" that has been generated as a result of annuitizing one's "countable assets"?

 

[Mr_Ed]

I have no idea what you're talking about.

For my benefit and the benefit of the rest of the forum, can you please explain the Medicaid rules regarding the income of the Community Spouse?

 

[insuranceexec]

I have no idea what you're talking about.

For my benefit and the benefit of the rest of the forum, can you please explain the Medicaid rules regarding the income of the Community Spouse?

What?????????? I will say that you are good at spinning questions........................LOL. At least I am entertained!

Why not first explain how the Post-DRA Half-Loaf strategy has been nullified; I find that increasingly interesting.

Do we on the forum get a discount on your book, Scott?

 

[Mr_Ed]

I never said that the post-DRA "half a loaf" strategy was nullified. If you think I said that, please point out the post.

What I did say was that the pre-DRA "half a loaf strategy" was nullified by the DRA. And it has been nullified by the DRA.

There is a strategy that was developed AFTER the DRA, called a "reverse half a loaf strategy". It is much more difficult to qualify for and it is much riskier than the pre-DRA "half a loaf strategy".

This post-DRA "half a loaf strategy" is NOT available in all states. You said that an attorney in AR says it works in AR. But, it does not work in all states.

Whenever you get time, please explain how Medicaid limits the income of the community spouse. Obviously, I don't understand. And, I'm sure that other people on this forum would love for you to explain it.

 

[insuranceexec]

I never said that the post-DRA "half a loaf" strategy was nullified. If you think I said that, please point out the post.

What I did say was that the pre-DRA "half a loaf strategy" was nullified by the DRA. And it has been nullified by the DRA.

There is a strategy that was developed AFTER the DRA, called a "reverse half a loaf strategy". It is much more difficult to qualify for and it is much riskier than the pre-DRA "half a loaf strategy".

This post-DRA "half a loaf strategy" is NOT available in all states. You said that an attorney in AR says it works in AR. But, it does not work in all states.

Whenever you get time, please explain how Medicaid limits the income of the community spouse. Obviously, I don't understand. And, I'm sure that other people on this forum would love for you to explain it.

I am assuming no discount!!!!!!


You stated the income is uncapped and untouched. This is not always the case! As you can see I am playing devil's advocate.

If the community spouse were to purchase a SPIA and annuitize(create an income) with all liquid "countable assets"; then in fact a portion of the community spouses income would have to be used to pay for the institutionalized spouse in the form of a penalty. Assuming the portion annuitized is more than $109,560.00 and was done post-DRA.

I like the debate; I appreciate it!

 

[Mr_Ed]

Originally Posted by insuranceexec
If the community spouse were to purchase a SPIA and annuitize(create an income) with all liquid "countable assets"; then in fact a portion of the community spouses income would have to be used to pay for the institutionalized spouse in the form of a penalty. Assuming the portion annuitized is more than $109,560.00 and was done post-DRA.



Is there a reason why you didn't tell Golfnut about this penalty 38 posts ago?