North American Builder Plus IUL 3

[CFP83]

Scagnt, if you like Penn you will like Columbus. You can appoint with them direct or go through a BGA......I go through a BGA for more competitive comp. As a company they still have a career agency feel as that was their roots. Direct underwriter communication/access, local regional director to support you, leaders conferences, website gives you all the functionalities to manage your business.

To DHK's point, Columbus Life is just IUL/UL/Term, Lafayette which is also owned by Western & Southern is where you would write whole life through.
On the ratings side, with a 96 Comdex, that tie's Columbus with Minn Life for what i believe is the highest rated IUL carrier's in the industry.

Columbus Life's term rates are not the most competitive, however they have a unique conversion niche......you can convert a term policy placed in force with ANY other major North American carrier anytime in the past 5 years to a Columbus life IUL with no underwriting.

Columbus Life's has the living benefits standard on perm/term just like Penn.

 

[scagnt83]

Scagnt, if you like Penn you will like Columbus. You to appoint with them direct or go through a BGA......I go through a BGA for more competitive comp. As a company they still have a "career agency" feel as that was their roots. Direct underwriter communication/access, local regional director to support you, leaders conferences, website gives you all the functionalities to manage your business.

To DHK's point, Columbus Life is just IUL/UL/Term, Lafayette which is also owned by Western & Southern is where you would write whole life through.
On the ratings side, with a 96 Comdex, that tie's Columbus with Minn Life for the highest rated IUL carrier's in the industry.

Columbus Life's term rates are not the most competitive, however they have a unique conversion niche......you can convert a term policy placed in force with ANY other major North American carrier anytime in the past 5 years to a Columbus life IUL with no underwriting.

Lastly, I didn't mention this in my previous post, Columbus Life's living benefits have some very liberal language. I hear this is why they get a good deal of biz in California I due to many carriers not offering living benefits in that state. DHK could comment more on this.

Thanks for the info. I actually used to work with my regions life director for Columbus, so maybe I will reach out to him.

Term is one reason Im a big fan of Penn. It competes against most any other term carrier very well.... blows away every other mutual's term products. Plus they have the accelerated UW program now, most of my term cases are issued in 2-3 days.

Ameritas does the same 3rd party conversion feature... I think they actually go out to 10 years. If you havent looked at Ameritas for protection based WL, take a look, its a great alternative to GUL.

What are their Living Benefits? Does Chronic require permanent impairment?? That is the "catch" most carriers have.. including Penn. (which they say is not going away anytime soon)

 

[DHK]

Columbus Life's living benefits have some very liberal language. I hear this is why they get a good deal of biz in California I due to many carriers not offering living benefits in that state. DHK could comment more on this.

I didn't know that. I just knew of Columbus Life because of John Savage years ago. I looked them up, but I was never appointed with them.

 

[CFP83]

yep, chronic requires permanent impairment

 

[CFP83]

DHK, early in my career I read all the savage books too.....recently I seen a youtube video where you posted some Savage video's, good stuff.

I just completed a big SIUL case with Columbus on my largest AUM client. He was uninsurable the the chronic rider covers him or her, whomever is the survivor, which was a nice perk.

 

[DWPCL]

Thanks for the info. I actually used to work with my regions life director for Columbus, so maybe I will reach out to him.

Term is one reason Im a big fan of Penn. It competes against most any other term carrier very well.... blows away every other mutual's term products. Plus they have the accelerated UW program now, most of my term cases are issued in 2-3 days.

Ameritas does the same 3rd party conversion feature... I think they actually go out to 10 years. If you havent looked at Ameritas for protection based WL, take a look, its a great alternative to GUL.

What are their Living Benefits? Does Chronic require permanent impairment?? That is the "catch" most carriers have.. including Penn. (which they say is not going away anytime soon)

This thread has prevented a lot of heartache and added to great value to my practice!

I was lured to Midland last year on the annuity side because of the direct relationship, but that came to an end because of this thread. If they treat their in force life block like that they probably treat their in force annuity block the same as well.

Scant I've been looking at Ameritas and I think they have one of the most complete product profiles of any company. But I'm hesitant because of what happened to me with ohio national.

Sticking with Penn for now.

 

[scagnt83]

This thread has prevented a lot of heartache and added to great value to my practice!

I was lured to Midland last year on the annuity side because of the direct relationship, but that came to an end because of this thread. If they treat their in force life block like that they probably treat their in force annuity block the same as well.

Scant I've been looking at Ameritas and I think they have one of the most complete product profiles of any company. But I'm hesitant because of what happened to me with ohio national.

Sticking with Penn for now.

Ameritas is a very different carrier than ON. Not saying they couldnt demutualize, but they dont "need" to like ON did.

To compare, they have the same amount of Assets, but ON only had around $2b in "equity" after liabilities were accounted for.... Ameritas has $4b in equity after liabilities are accounted for.

Same asset levels but drastically different management of those assets. Thats why its important to read the annual reports and compare them to others. ON began their downward spiral about 7 or 8 years ago with their asset/debt ratio. Ameritas on the other hand has stayed fairly steady with that ratio.

Essentially, ON ran their General Account into the ground and was forced to take the money and restructure.

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Penn is one of my primary carriers. But no reason you cant add Ameritas to your bag as well. Their products have different niches imo.

Penn beats Ameritas for accumulation. But Ameritas WL is awesome for protection and DB focused cases. The guaranteed ledger is amazingly strong, stronger than any other WL ive seen.

Ameritas has multiple WL products, with some being cost effective and others being accumulation focused. Their cost effective WL can compete with most GULs.

I dont sell Ameritas WL for accumulation focused clients. So they could eliminate the dividend and it would have zero effect on my Ameritas book. Plus, the guaranteed ledger is super strong wtihout dividends anyway.

* Their LB Rider is included for free and includes Chronic & Critical Illness. Plus it does NOT require permanent impairment like Penn does. HUGE difference. But it only allows 50% of the DB for Chronic and 25% for Critical.

Their WL has a true Level Term Rider for 10/20/30 years. So you can sell a $25k WL with a $1m 20y Term Rider, which is a great setup imo. Using the right product, you can have the WL premium stop right around the age when the Term expires. So they get a fully paidup WL once the term ends.

Ameritas IUL is not that great imo. Penn 100% in that category.

Ameritas Term is very competitive, and has Chronic & Critical Illness Rider on it for free. Plus its convertible.

UW is much more lenient with Ameritas. They take higher risk cases that Penn wont touch. Great with diabetics and heavy builds. Plus they are just more lax on health conditions from Standard on down.

They also have an accelerated UW program just like Penn that can issue a rating same day.

They are worth having as an option imo.

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In my experience with NA annuities (which is no different than Midland) they use teaser rates as well. The 2 NA annuities I did sell had horrible renewal rates.

 

[scagnt83]

yep, chronic requires permanent impairment

That is the main reason I dont get excited about most Chronic Riders. Statistically its not going to be used as often as those that dont require permanent impairment.

 

[pfg1]

Any updates on solid IUL carriers? The bulk of this conversation was a year ago.

I use Penn mostly, but open to exploring other solid options if there are any.

I know alot of carriers are coming out with all these exotic indexing options, it all seems like a way to try and win the ledger war is all. No way I'm setting up a client in a product that is supposed to have "downside protection" with something that costs 5% or more of their gain (or puts them negative).

 

[jboussea]

Yes. But some have dropped much more than others. Big difference in keeping in line with the rate environment and dropping renewals because they used teaser rates to trick people into buying.

A NA policy bought 6 years ago would have seen a 7% cap reduction if memory serves me correctly. And one block saw an increase in expenses already.

And NA uses true teaser rates. They release a new IUL with high caps... and immediately reduce caps on inforce blocks. If you look at their renewal history and its timing, it is like clockwork. They illustrate a higher than average Cap/rate, then drop it a couple years later to below average rate.

Compare that to others, such as Penn, who give the same Cap/rate on renewals as they do to new issues. Caps are not as high as NA to start... but after 5 years they will be higher.

I regret ever selling NA or Midland IULs and FIAs (they do the same with teaser rates on their annuities). You couldnt pay me enough to sell NA or Midland policies again.

So are you saying that all of your inforce policies have a lower cap rate than what is being marketed to new clients?
- are all your inforce policy with na/midland have the same cap rates or do they have different cap rates depending on the issue date?
- Any carrier you see that is keeping it consistent across the board?

I have a Penn Policy that's 8.50% with a 1% floor ... I see new brochures at 8.25% but the illustration software is showing 9% so not sure which one is current..