Ohio National and Constellation

[scagnt83]

We should compile a list of MHC WL carriers...

Mass Mutual

Lafayette Life

American National

Ohio National

Ameritas

Minnesota Life / Securion

PacLife

Liberty Mutual

 

[DHK]

One America / American United Life

I'd never sell American National's WL - at least not the ones made available to their independent contracts. Their career sales & service division might be different, but I don't want that captive contract.

I *think* Ameritas is focusing more on their IUL rather than their WL?

 

[scagnt83]

I *think* Ameritas is focusing more on their IUL rather than their WL?

Ameritas WL is a death benefit focused product. Very little dividend at all. But very strong guaranteed cash values. And very affordable premiums. A true GUL killer... similar premium as GUL, with a ton more guaranteed CV. Plus excellent living benefits. Since everything is guaranteed on it, no real danger from the holding company scenario.

They do have a 10-pay whole life that is cash value focused. But it still does not really compete with the major mutuals.

Their cash value product is the IUL. Strong IUL with very low expenses.

They have living benefits on their term as well. Fully convertible term.

 

[DHK]

Saw this in my Facebook feed... and had to post it here:

 

[walthamny]

I love this discussion. I think John Hancock de-mutualized without ever becoming a mutual holding company. May be someone can correct me here. It is my very vague understanding that if you go straight from mutual to a stock company, you have to pay an additional corporate conversion tax. Before 2008 when John Hancock was de-mutualized they asked IRS for a private letter ruling and they were fine with the amount they had to pay. Northwestern Mutual and New York Life also asked for a private letter ruling but the number for the exit tax was much higher. This probably has to do with how they accounted certain things in their balance sheet. SOmeone had posted an analysis years ago on another website but I can see NY Life and NorthWestern Mutual asking it to be removed. Now after John Hancock demutualized 2008 crisis happened and NY Life executives were happy to talk about how they remained mutual even though they were also seeking a private letter ruling earlier. There was also jealousy. All John Hancock upper management received stock options and had the stock gone through the roof, their compensation would have eclipsed NY Life management. There was also a movement at the Federal level to allow mutual holding companies but only let them sell stock for 49% of the company. So they would remain mutual but enjoy some of the benefits of the stock company and be able to raise capital and give out stock options as compensation. This was successfully lobbied away by every large mutual company( holding company or not). So I would not only focus on mutual holding company as the next ones. Every large mutual is always looking for the best for upper management. If this new law change last year makes the profit loss better in the long run and if IRS gives out better private letter rulings, do not be surprised if we have no mutual life insurance companies left.

 

[Lloyds of Lubbock]

We should compile a list of MHC WL carriers...

Mass Mutual

Lafayette Life

American National

Ohio National

Ameritas

Minnesota Life / Securion

PacLife

Liberty Mutual

Mass Mutual is not an Mutual Holding Company

 

[walthamny]

Mass Mutual is not an Mutual Holding Company

Bloomberg has them listed as such.

MassMutual Holding LLC - Company Profile and News

 

[Lloyds of Lubbock]

MassMutual is the name company.
it is not Mass.....Mutual Holding Company

 

[walthamny]

Please click on the link I posted and you will see MassMutual Holding LLC operates as a holding company.

 

[scagnt83]

MassMutual is the name company.
it is not Mass.....Mutual Holding Company

They certainly have a Mutual Holding Company within their structure. Maybe it is not at the top of the corporate structure, perhaps its for investment arms of the company.

There is very little info on it from what Ive found. But Ive heard from other sources they are a MHC.

There is also a push from certain Mass policy holders to actually demutualize. It seems they feel the larger policyholders would benefit greatly from excess surplus being divided up among policy holders. I guess thats great for those with short term mindsets with their policy. idk.