Ohio National and Constellation

[Lloyds of Lubbock]

Mass Mutual that issues life policies is a pure mutual company....period!
While they may have investment or other divisions that operate under a holding company, the life insurance is a pure mutual.
Name one MHC that is licensed to sell life insurance in the state of New York?

Wasn't that push to go public years ago?

 

[Lloyds of Lubbock]

https://www.massmutual.com/about-us...s a mutual company,we don't have shareholders.

 

[scagnt83]

Mass Mutual that issues life policies is a pure mutual company....period!
While they may have investment or other divisions that operate under a holding company, the life insurance is a pure mutual.
Name one MHC that is licensed to sell life insurance in the state of New York?

Wasn't that push to go public years ago?

MHCs give the same line about policy holders being owners who are put first.

No MHC actually issues insurance policies. They own mutual companies that issue insurance policies.

Not saying you are right or wrong about Mass. Just saying.

I can't find a corporate structure chart for Mass when I looked.

 

[Lloyds of Lubbock]

You can say whatever you want, but they are not a MHC in the sense that assets were transferred to start a new company with no compensation to the policyholder.

I am pretty sure but not a 100% that an MHC formation cannot be licensed to do business in NY.

 

[Tothetop]

I can't find a corporate structure chart for Mass when I looked.

Based on this site, it states Massmutual MHC is directly consolidated by MassMutual Life Ins. Co.

So Massmutual Life Ins. Co. is the parent company of Mass MHC based on the info on this site.

Click on the Legal Entity Identifier link at the bottom of the site.

https://sec.report/CIK/0001777811/amp

 

[Tothetop]

I believe the information can also be found on Sec.gov using their EDGAR system.

 

[walthamny]

And also going back to my point, You can be mutual and go direct and de-mutualize or you can become a mutual holding company first and later demutualize. And MassMutual had no problem lobbying for a mutual holding company legislation before. So they spent their surplus( policy holders money) on how to become a mutual holding company. Nice, I dont see any conflict here. Every large mutual has a game plan ready to implement if and when it becomes advantageous. If we see more activity like Ohio National, it may also mean we are near the top of the stock market run. If I were the CEO of a mutual insurance company, I would want to sell out near the top. Low interest rates have been here for a while. I am pretty sure Investment Bankers have visited all large mutuals with their pitch several times.

 

[Lloyds of Lubbock]

Not every state allows a company to become an MHC.
The fact that they spent money, these companies spend money all the time, it does not mean the policyholders got hurt or were shorted.
Can a company Demutualize to become a stock company...yes it could happen.

Major difference is Ohio needed the money .
Really what they got was not that much.
Game plan...I believe this is probably true.

 

[scagnt83]

The fact that they spent money, these companies spend money all the time, it does not mean the policyholders got hurt or were shorted.
Can a company Demutualize to become a stock company...yes it could happen.

You can say whatever you want, but they are not a MHC in the sense that assets were transferred to start a new company with no compensation to the policyholder.

You keep pointing out that Mass policyholders were not shorted or denied dividends.

Nobody said that was the case.

Mass has one of the highest performing WL policies on the market. Lafayette is a MHC and they still pay dividends. ON has been a MHC and kept paying Dividends.

Nobody said a MHC means they are not paying dividends or not giving benefits to policyholders. While its a MHC, that still continues.

ON had paid Dividends since the 60s when they became mutual, even after becoming a MHC. But they were in a position to easily demutualize because they were a MHC.

But, the danger to policy holders is the carrier CAN EASILY demutualize at will.

A true mutual has a lot of hoops to jump through, including very large state based fees, along with a larger buyout to policyholders, if they want to demutualize.

A MHC can demutualize without the huge cost. Hence the potential danger to policy holders.

 

[scagnt83]

Major difference is Ohio needed the money .
Really what they got was not that much.
Game plan...I believe this is probably true.

Very true statement. Such a small sum shows how badly the capital was needed.

My biggest issue is the stock compensation the board of directors and execs get in the deal. The ones making decision are the ones who stand to profit the most from it. At least ON isnt going public. But the execs still get stock based comp if past deals are any indicator of this one.