Out of State

[Josh]

Please pardon the ignorance, but for all you're saying "it's the law" you have provided zero actual law. For example, if you replace a life policy in NY you have to follow a replacement policy. Here is the law: http://www.dfs.ny.gov/insurance/r_finala/1998/reg60fin.pdf

In VA you have to provide a LTC guide to a prospective LTC client before they enroll, here is the law: LIS > Administrative Code > 14VAC5-200-201

(those might seem random, but those are two states I've had resident licenses in)

If this is so obvious and so basic, where is a law from a single state saying it's illegal? Again, I don't expect you to answer that, but you said it's illegal and all I'm asking for is a citation of the actual law vs what a compliance department put out.

 

[scagnt83]

The really short version is you claim it's illegal, I challenge that, we both agree it's a bad idea. I really have no interest in debating this with you for any length of time. Even if it is legal, it's asking for trouble. If you insist that you're right and would like to show state laws backing it up, not the result of compliance departments interpreting what they think the best practices are, then your claim it's illegal would certainly be substantiated.

Again, its law. SITUS Guidelines are based on state insurance laws. Always have been, and anyone who has any experience in that area knows this. Again, SITUS is a legal term. SITUS Guidelines are the legal guidelines for the states that carrier does business in.

SITUS (contract state) is all about the state laws that are applicable to that contract.


You dont have to believe me. But at the same time it is obvious you have no real experience in this area.

I tried to help the OP with an answer that was based on a large amount of experience dealing with SITUS in the business market. Almost half of my COLI clients have insureds that are out of state. I deal with SITUS (and must justify SITUS to company) a good bit.

When a carrier disagrees with the SITUS I originally stated, the term they usually use is not SITUS "Guidelines"; it is SITUS LAW.

You can choose to not listen to someone who has first hand experience with this. And that is totally fine. But to discount first hand experience for arguments sake is short sighted and illogical.
It is also doing a disservice to the OP who is trying to make a sale. You have no real experience with this, yet you are disagreeing with someone who very likely has the most experience with this subject out of all who have responded. And maybe I am wrong. But I have heard a heck of a lot of stories and situations and read a bunch of industry related articles and have been told by a bunch of compliance depts that it is law.

 

[Josh]

Again, is law. SITUS Guidelines are based on state insurance laws. Always have been, and anyone who has any experience in that area knows this. Again, SITUS is a legal term. SITUS Guidelines are the legal guidelines for the states that carrier does business in.

SITUS (contract state) is all about the state laws that are applicable to that contract.


You dont have to believe me. But at the same time it is obvious you have no real experience in this area.

I tried to help the OP with an answer that was based on a large amount of experience dealing with SITUS in the business market. Almost half of my COLI clients have insureds that are out of state. I deal with SITUS (and must justify SITUS to company) a good bit.

When a carrier disagrees with the SITUS I originally stated, the term they usually use is not SITUS "Guidelines"; it is SITUS LAW.

But to discount first hand experience for arguments sake is short sighted and illogical.
It is also doing a disservice to the OP who is trying to make a sale. You have no real experience with this, yet you are disagreeing with someone who very likely has the most experience with this subject out of all who have responded...

I'm sorry I hurt your feelings, I really am. I'm not saying to ignore your advice. You claim it's illegal, I agree at a minimum it's a really bad idea and looking for trouble, ultimately the arrive at the same destination of don't do it.

I'm still a licensed agent and while I don't think I'll be selling insurance actively again any time soon, I think that was a cheap shot. All I've asked you to do was to back up one claim with an actual law. Apparently you'd rather take to insulting me by claiming I have no idea what I'm talking about than actually show in writing where it's illegal. When I was a carrier rep for MA plans I would actually show agents in writing where it said they could or couldn't do things based off of what the CMS guidelines were. I wouldn't take it as a personal offense if they wanted to see it in writing, I would just show them.

 

[scagnt83]

No hurt feelings here.
You can't take this, how can take the abuse you get on a sit?!


Here is a court ruling from WA about insurance contract SITUS:

Washington courts have also adopted the “significant relationship” test in section 145 of the Restatement, which gives great weight to the place where the parties’ relationship was centered. [Citations omitted and emphasis added, Schnall v. AT&T Wireless Services, Inc., 171 Wn.2d 260 (April 14, 2011)]

You can look up the entire ruling and read it.

But in short WA courts say it is all about where the relationship was "centered".... so in your personal example that might be ok in WA... but in the OPs it would not be.

Like I said I dont have references to the state codes of laws. That would take forever. But it is fairly well known that you have to have a residence or business in that state to buy a policy in that state.

 

[Josh]

No hurt feelings here.
You can't take this, how can take the abuse you get on a sit?!


Here is a court ruling from WA about insurance contract SITUS:

Washington courts have also adopted the “significant relationship” test in section 145 of the Restatement, which gives great weight to the place where the parties’ relationship was centered. [Citations omitted and emphasis added, Schnall v. AT&T Wireless Services, Inc., 171 Wn.2d 260 (April 14, 2011)]

Not for nothing, but that's a wireless service, not an annuity or life insurance contract.

Here is one example of what happened with one agent doing something similar. I don't know the specifics, but there are other examples in the disciplinary actions where folks try to sell Florida annuities or NJ annuities to NY residents. It's worth noting that carriers do approve these contracts and they do get issued to out of state folks. That doesn't stop agents from getting huge fines.

LICENSEE ADDRESS PENALTY
John P. XXXXXX
(Agent)
105 Broadhollow Road
Melville, NY 11747
$32,400 fine

Respondent solicited, negotiated and/or delivered in the State of New York life insurance
policies issued by an unauthorized insurer, and otherwise aided and facilitated an
unauthorized insurer in doing an insurance business in the State of New York. [Stipulation
approved October 28, 2011.]

You can find more here: http://www.dfs.ny.gov/insurance/da/2011--2020/da20120113.pdf

 

[scagnt83]

I'm still a licensed agent and while I don't think I'll be selling insurance actively again any time soon, I think that was a cheap shot. All I've asked you to do was to back up one claim with an actual law.

Your right. I apologize. It was a poor form.

----------

Not for nothing, but that's a wireless service, not an annuity or life insurance contract.

It is a ruling on health insurance contract law.

 

[Josh]

Your right. I apologize. It was a poor form.

I appreciate that.

It is a ruling on health insurance contract law.

I'll have to dig into the case a bit more than. I'm sure it's an interesting read. I thought it was with respect to customers vs employees.

 

[Experienced Agent]

I think my question has been answered. Thanks to all that replied