If Brown had the help of Ron Paul, hewould raise millions in one day of online funding....
Scott Brown Winning: Healthcare Reform Halts !
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I don't agree with Al on everything but he's right on this topic; you're fooling yourselves if you don't think we're going to get health care legislation.
We didn't think they'd draft bills and they did. We didn't think it would pass the House and it did. We didn't think it would pass the Senate and it did.
Now the bills are being merged and within a week or two they'll announce the successful merging of the bills.
Once the bills are merged within days the House and Senate will pass the final draft and Obama will sign it without even reading it.
We didn't think they'd draft bills and they did. We didn't think it would pass the House and it did. We didn't think it would pass the Senate and it did.
Now the bills are being merged and within a week or two they'll announce the successful merging of the bills.
Once the bills are merged within days the House and Senate will pass the final draft and Obama will sign it without even reading it.
G
Guest
Guest
I wonder if we are watching some kind of Kabuki street theater.
I'm wondering if maybe the administration's "master plan" all along was for it to be a 2 year process... where the Congress and the "left" get to "vent" their grievances and come up with what everyone (with a brain) knows would be a bad piece of legislation the first year (act one).
In the next act, President Obama will veto the bill.
The third act is where both the MODERATE Reps and the MODERATE Dems AND the administration sit down in a quiet room for a year and come up with a plan that is a true compromise, which won't be as radical, and which will have true bipartisan support... and that will work!
The one thing I've not understood is why, during the entire past year, the Republicans did not sit down and write their own "bill," or "manifesto" and use it to "flog" the media in opposition. It is one thing to say "I don't like YOUR bill." It's another to say "I have a better one" and indeed, offer the American public an alternative.
Can anyone explain to me why a handful of experienced Republican senators and representatives couldn't have come up with a bill that spoke to their issues and concerns?
Honestly, and I don't mean this as a "dig" but I don't know what "your side" proposes for health reform. Where is your "Health Contract For America?" Where is YOUR 8,000 page bill that we can read and decide for ourselves which will/might be better for us?
The "left" has a public option or an exchange thing. What does your side have to control the cost of health care or just premiums? What does the loyal opposition have in the way of alternative legislation?
I don't like the legislation that I've seen so far, but if it is true that you go to war with the army you have... than I think I'll hold my nose and swallow it... because I don't want to wait another 15 years for the process to begin again.
I think the Republicans missed a huge chance to "talk" to the American people and say "This is what we should be doing" as opposed to saying day after day after day "No, no, no, no, no."
But maybe they HAVE a well-thought out piece of legislation drafted in secret that hey have hidden away to be unveiled at what they think is the "right time?" Act four?
Maybe the message of "Their plan is crap. Throw them out of office and we'll come up with a better one" will work next year. I rather doubt it but I'm not as tuned into politics as many others here are.
Al
I'm wondering if maybe the administration's "master plan" all along was for it to be a 2 year process... where the Congress and the "left" get to "vent" their grievances and come up with what everyone (with a brain) knows would be a bad piece of legislation the first year (act one).
In the next act, President Obama will veto the bill.
The third act is where both the MODERATE Reps and the MODERATE Dems AND the administration sit down in a quiet room for a year and come up with a plan that is a true compromise, which won't be as radical, and which will have true bipartisan support... and that will work!
The one thing I've not understood is why, during the entire past year, the Republicans did not sit down and write their own "bill," or "manifesto" and use it to "flog" the media in opposition. It is one thing to say "I don't like YOUR bill." It's another to say "I have a better one" and indeed, offer the American public an alternative.
Can anyone explain to me why a handful of experienced Republican senators and representatives couldn't have come up with a bill that spoke to their issues and concerns?
Honestly, and I don't mean this as a "dig" but I don't know what "your side" proposes for health reform. Where is your "Health Contract For America?" Where is YOUR 8,000 page bill that we can read and decide for ourselves which will/might be better for us?
The "left" has a public option or an exchange thing. What does your side have to control the cost of health care or just premiums? What does the loyal opposition have in the way of alternative legislation?
I don't like the legislation that I've seen so far, but if it is true that you go to war with the army you have... than I think I'll hold my nose and swallow it... because I don't want to wait another 15 years for the process to begin again.
I think the Republicans missed a huge chance to "talk" to the American people and say "This is what we should be doing" as opposed to saying day after day after day "No, no, no, no, no."
But maybe they HAVE a well-thought out piece of legislation drafted in secret that hey have hidden away to be unveiled at what they think is the "right time?" Act four?
Maybe the message of "Their plan is crap. Throw them out of office and we'll come up with a better one" will work next year. I rather doubt it but I'm not as tuned into politics as many others here are.
Al
- 2,908
We have been over this a bit. It has been crystal clear for about five years now that some type of legislation will pass, and as discussed, some additional health care legislation will pass every year in some shape, form, or amendment for the rest of our lives.
Al's entire view or American politics is who is or is not in the White House and who can or cannot win as President. Any policy issues or lower level elections are of no interest to him. It is all about presidential politics. Similarly, health care reform to him is about whether a bill, without regard to what it's content is, will pass and that is all that matters. The whole discussion in America about whether that would be the Canadian system, public option, mandate, etc are not even significant issues. The goal is that Obama is in white house and "a bill" passes. The fact that both the libs and the conservatives hate it is irrelevant.
Some of us here have been saying for years that health care reform in some shape is coming (remember all the past discussions where it was alleged that all of this would blow over?). However, for those who are interested in the actual content of health care reform then, it is going to be much, much different in the short run than what the libs want.
Similarly, we will be getting into immigration reform soon and for some the goal will simply be that Obama gets an immigration reform bill passed. WTF does that mean though? For those who are only saying that means a bill of some sort will pass then that is sort of safe bet. The content of it is another issue altogether.
In addition, it has been alleged and denied by Al and others that that passing health reform legislation would be a bloodbath and many bodies would fall out along the way before it was over versus the "we have a majority and will have a bill by August and all you republicans need to accept that" argument. How is that piece coming?
We will not only have a bill passed in some busted down form, we will have lots and lot of them in all shapes in form for years to come.
Does that mean public option next year or single payer next year? Some care and some don't depending on what they are looking for . You can acknowledge that reform is coming and believe last summer that the bill in its form then is in serious trouble. Those are both true.
Health reform now is a complete and total mess which will ensure that we will be wrestling with it year after year for decades. Many, including many here, believe it is a matter of just seeing what passes and going off and working with that. No such luck. Whatever is passed or not passed will be amended a dozen times between now and whenever. Last week Pelosi said that when she was finished the insurance companies will wish they had gone with the public option. I believe her.
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Al,
They did write their own bill. It's called The Patients Choice Act. Why didn't you hear about? Because the main stream media won't cover it and the dems won't listen to anything or anyone besides another dem.
As far as this theory of a 2-year plan, I think you give them too much credit.
They did write their own bill. It's called The Patients Choice Act. Why didn't you hear about? Because the main stream media won't cover it and the dems won't listen to anything or anyone besides another dem.
As far as this theory of a 2-year plan, I think you give them too much credit.
- 990
Re: Scott Brown Winning: Healthcare Reform Halts!!!!!!
Ah ... no he didn't ...!!!!!!
AHHHHHHHHHHHH, heh,heh,ha,ha,ha,ooooooooh ...
Kennedy's senate seat in jeopardy ... wow.
Ah ... no he didn't ...!!!!!!
AHHHHHHHHHHHH, heh,heh,ha,ha,ha,ooooooooh ...
Kennedy's senate seat in jeopardy ... wow.
G
Guest
Guest
I find that hard to believe. The mainstream media loves a good fight. If there was (is) any substance to this Patience Choice Act I'm sure it would have been covered... especially if it were flogged by the intellectual spokespeople of the Republican Party... Limbaugh, Beck, and Palin.
All I see is:
Read The Bill: S. 1099 - GovTrack.us
which is actually a political position paper clothed in legislaiton. It looks more like a resolution than a bill. Why didn't you guys flesh this out with costs, entitlements, eligibility, etc.
Read The Bill: S. 1099 - GovTrack.us
That's it? You guys say that the Dem bill is vague? You are leading the "vague parade" when it comes to funding.
Anyway, how come I'm not hearing Reps say "Our bill is better, our bill is better, see ours, see ours!" I watch Fox news and enjoy some of the talking heads (but not Beck) and I don't see any of them "talking up" S 1099 as an alternative to the Dems. All I hear is "Their bill sucks, their bill sucks!" and nothing about the alternative.
So saying that the mainstream media won't talk about this is not totally true. Your own talking heads don't see this S 1099 as a serious piece of legislation. And I can assume no one in Congress does either or this Coburn guy would be on TV and radio every day being interviewed... and would be considered one of the Reps. rising stars... and lord knows you guys need a few compared to the pitiful lot you have now!
I've said for a long time that conservatives are plain old LAZY. You guys don't want to get up off your fat butts and WORK for your cause... unless it has to do with guns.
When is the last time you walked a district or made phone calls or sealed envelopes for an arch-con candidate? How many of you actually did something for McCain-Palin? Did you even give $$$?
You guys are always blaming the media or Obama or the courts or election laws or Congress or the weather for your troubles. The problem is that you don't want to work for what you believe to be right. The only ones who show up at your tea-party meetings is your lunatic fringe elements (like the guys who advocate we all carry concealed weapons.)
If you guys want to win the lottery... you have to buy a ticket. You guys are always talking about fat, lazy, shiftless people who just want a handout. It's no wonder you know these people so well... as they are you!
Get to work arch-cons and neo-cons. Write letters to your editors and TV stations asking the to cover your Senate 1099 bill. Offer to write columns about it for your local papers (they will print them.) Hold a rally with some speakers who will tout this bill.
Otherwise the debate is framed by "our" side... and the picture we present of you is:
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- 2,908
The dems won. Elections have consequences. They vowed that they didnt need any republicans involved whatsoever to pass a bill because they had what it took. Therefore whatever passes is completely and totally the responsibility of the dems come next election (or before for some).
Actually that does sound like a perfecetly good republican plan hehehehe. All the dems have to do is to pass a good plan- OR NOT. Maybe the next shot at it comes uip ("it: meaning a bill with some content in it) the dems will start with the idea that they need to reach across the aisle. Might be nice to have a plan that will get some dem support too considering that it is a dem plan.
Yup. The dems are gong to get some type of bill passed that's the good news for them. The bad news is that dems are going t0 get slaughtered for passing a plan that they want but the public doesnt. (slaughtering already in progress) Go for it. No republican in their right mind (or dem either) at this point would touch it even though the dems are begging them to pretty it up a little to share the blame......errr... I meant responsiblity.
Oh I see some solutions coming up in "the bill". We will exempt everyone who voted for dems and give special deals for dem senators and then we will make everything kick in about 2018 so that "the bill" passes but no one knows what that means in the real world.
Yup. Big reform bill coming right up. Can't wait to see what "the bill" for immigration is going to look like. Dems are completely lost without Kennedy. Obama has zero legislative skills and Hillary is out in Siberia and they are just lost. The leadership issue in the republican and libertarian parties is well discussed but take Obama out of the euation and what do the dems have? Yup, and doesnt it show.
Or then again, as Tinkerbell Barney Frank said "if Scott Brown gets elected that will kill health reform." In which case, I would still argue that reform is coming but I might adjust the part about "the bill coming right up a bit." I will spare you my usual rant about Dodd. I am satisfied with the way that is progressing.
Change you can believe in.
Actually that does sound like a perfecetly good republican plan hehehehe. All the dems have to do is to pass a good plan- OR NOT. Maybe the next shot at it comes uip ("it: meaning a bill with some content in it) the dems will start with the idea that they need to reach across the aisle. Might be nice to have a plan that will get some dem support too considering that it is a dem plan.
Yup. The dems are gong to get some type of bill passed that's the good news for them. The bad news is that dems are going t0 get slaughtered for passing a plan that they want but the public doesnt. (slaughtering already in progress) Go for it. No republican in their right mind (or dem either) at this point would touch it even though the dems are begging them to pretty it up a little to share the blame......errr... I meant responsiblity.
Oh I see some solutions coming up in "the bill". We will exempt everyone who voted for dems and give special deals for dem senators and then we will make everything kick in about 2018 so that "the bill" passes but no one knows what that means in the real world.
Yup. Big reform bill coming right up. Can't wait to see what "the bill" for immigration is going to look like. Dems are completely lost without Kennedy. Obama has zero legislative skills and Hillary is out in Siberia and they are just lost. The leadership issue in the republican and libertarian parties is well discussed but take Obama out of the euation and what do the dems have? Yup, and doesnt it show.
Or then again, as Tinkerbell Barney Frank said "if Scott Brown gets elected that will kill health reform." In which case, I would still argue that reform is coming but I might adjust the part about "the bill coming right up a bit." I will spare you my usual rant about Dodd. I am satisfied with the way that is progressing.
Change you can believe in.
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