Selling Final Expense

[Todd King]

Just looking at the rates, it appears she was quoting a 65YO Male, NS at Monumental's preferred rate.

 

[Chazm]

The best plan for her is.....well just give her my phone number and I'll let her know

 

[jdeasy]

Captain I totally agree with you... actually a No Lapse UL is perfect for this customer

I would never, ever, ever, ever, ever sell a UL for FE. Not even a GUL. Never!

If someone would sell a UL to a senior for FE, it tells me that person does not understand the FE market all nor have they been in that business for long.

GUL has it's place. That place is not the FE market.

Did I say I would not sell one for FE?

 

[captain94]

I would never, ever, ever, ever, ever sell a UL for FE. Not even a GUL. Never!

If someone would sell a UL to a senior for FE, it tells me that person does not understand the FE market all nor have they been in that business for long.

GUL has it's place. That place is not the FE market.

Did I say I would sell one for FE?

I agree 100%. A UL? I can't even see the reason for it for a senior. Please explain your reason for the UL.

 

[jdeasy]

I agree 100%. A UL? I can't even see the reason for it for a senior. Please explain your reason for the UL.

For say a 35-40 year old that wants/needs a large policy a GUL would be great for them. Although I would be more inclined to sell them a convertable term.

I just wouldn't close the door on a UL for purposes other than funeral expenses.

Newby and I had this discussion on the phone today. We are both involved in rescuing some people from imploding UL's.

The main reason I wouldn't sell a GUL to a senior for FE is because the guarantees go away with missed premium payments if they can't get it corrected right away. People in the FE market miss payments. Might as well sell them a $10,000 term policy. I don't do those either for FE.

 

[WinoBlues]

I am not a FE expert.
I do write a lot of people in the age 65 group. Some of those are people that want policies that will be there to pay for their final expenses. This is just a case study of an average case

I would appreciate comments from the experts.

Male age 65 -. Non tobacco – 5'8" 225#s controlled HBP and Cholesterol
$25,000 coverage.

RoyCo = Royal Neighbors and Americo average. Mid level premiums. Other FE policies would be lower - ??= cash values unknown.

Genworth = GenGuard UL
Genworth cash values are the Guaranteed Cash values. Current would be higher.

RoyCo$130.Pay 4 ever - Genworth$130.Pay 4 ever - Genworth$130.till age 75



...........................RoyCo..Gen..Gen 10 pay

Benefit gar'd to age 121 ... 120 ... 109

3yr cash value ....... ?? $1,419 $1,419

5yr cash value ....... ?? $3,514 $3,514

10yr cash value ..... ?? $9,751 $9,090

 

[Newby]

What happens to the lifetime death benefit on the UL if you pull out some cash value?
I just don't find people with GUL who understand their policy. They always think they have whole life. Once they find out they don't they are easy to replace with whole life.
I'm talking about small $25,000 or so policies not large ones.

 

[WinoBlues]

What happens to the lifetime death benefit on the UL if you pull out some cash value?
I just don't find people with GUL who understand their policy. They always think they have whole life. Once they find out they don't they are easy to replace with whole life.
I'm talking about small $25,000 or so policies not large ones.

I ran illustrations taking a $1,000 loan at year 6 and not paying it or the loan interest back.

I do not have a cash values chart for Royal Neighbors or Americo. I'll have to see if I can get those numbers.

Full pay = Guaranteed DB = $23,924 end of year 6. End of year 20 = $25,366. End of year 25 =$31,072.
10 pay = Guaranteed DB = $23,924. end of year 6. End of year 20 = $22,000. End of year 25 = $20,672.

If loan interest is paid on the full pay - DB in year 20 is $26,820 and raises every year after. On the 10 pay it stays at $24,000

BTW, the minimum to age 121 premium is $77.00 I could not compare that to a typical FE policy.

I am not arguing that one type of policy is better or worst. Mostly I am agreeing with your comment that if healthy, there may be better options. I write some FE, some GUL, some whole life and some term.. I am just curious how the FE experts see it. I am not vested in any type of policy.

Thanks for the reply.

 

[jdeasy]

I ran illustrations taking a $1,000 loan at year 6 and not paying it or the loan interest back.

I do not have a cash values chart for Royal Neighbors or Americo. I'll have to see if I can get those numbers.

Full pay = Guaranteed DB = $23,924 end of year 6. End of year 20 = $25,366. End of year 25 =$31,072.
10 pay = Guaranteed DB = $23,924. end of year 6. End of year 20 = $22,000. End of year 25 = $20,672.

If loan interest is paid on the full pay - DB in year 20 is $26,820 and raises every year after. On the 10 pay it stays at $24,000

BTW, the minimum to age 121 premium is $77.00 I could not compare that to a typical FE policy.

I am not arguing that one type of policy is better or worst. Mostly I am agreeing with your comment that if healthy, there may be better options. I write some FE, some GUL, some whole life and some term.. I am just curious how the FE experts see it. I am not vested in any type of policy.

Thanks for the reply.

When I say "FE market", I'm referring to the people that send in FE reply cards. Those are the people that are notorious procrastinators and/or broke. They did not get to be seniors and not have their funerals planned or taken care of because they have been good planners or good with their money.

Those people do not have an agent or advisor and we are damn lucky if they have a checking account or savings account at all.

Too many moving parts and if's in a UL for that market. The automatic premium loan is a very big deal to that demographic because they will most likely use it at some point.

Occasionally I will get a reply card from someone outside the norm. I had one last fall that I called and made an appointment with. We made it at noon because he said said he would be home for lunch then. When I got there at noon, he wasn't home. It was a nice home in and old money section of town, but, not elaborate. The wife told me that he couldn't get away from work, but that he had said I could down to his work and talk to him if I wanted. She told me that he worked on the top floor of a local bank. I decide to go down there. This guy had sent in an FEmailer and was 76 years old. In my mind I'm thinking he is a janitor or something at this building.

I get ther and go through security and get to the top floor. I ask for the fellow and the lady says she will take me to his office and he is expecting me. Turns out he is semi retired, but, is one of the founding partners of the largest law firm in Evansville, In. He wanted a $25,000 whole life on himself and his wife and wished to pay annually. I , at first, tried to talk to him about other option since he was not the normal FE client. He wanted nothing to do with UL, GUL, SPWL, term, etc. He knew what he wanted and, if I would write it, I had the business. I happily did what he wanted.

So, yes, I would look at other options for people outside the norm, but, if one deals in the FE market all the time, they understand exactly what I'm talking about. I consider Newby to be the most knowledable person I've ever had dealings with on the subject of FE. He will not sell UL for FE. know the top FE agent in the country very well and he will not sell UL for FE.

 

[WinoBlues]

Thanks for the reply JD.

As I mentioned I am not a FE agent. I write 5-10 a month. And those are on the type clients you mentioned. Not based on age.

We have a few FE agents in my area that write everyone FE. Age 8-80. They do not know how to write anything else or are just hit and run salesmen.

I would not replace a FE product on the type clients you are talking about unless it was with a lower cost FE policy. But have on the more typical retirees. Pension, homeowner, savings etc. And sometimes it is with a GUL. Especially on a UL rescue with a 1035. Many times I can take the same premium and short pay it.

I have learned a lot from you and Newby on FE and Pre-need. Also using your tip on referring MoO on GI, I have gotten a lot of referrals.

You mentioned you replace GULs with whole life. How do you do the comparison?

Thanks

When I say "FE market", I'm referring to the people that send in FE reply cards. Those are the people that are notorious procrastinators and/or broke. They did not get to be seniors and not have their funerals planned or taken care of because they have been good planners or good with their money.

Those people do not have an agent or advisor and we are damn lucky if they have a checking account or savings account at all.

Too many moving parts and if's in a UL for that market. The automatic premium loan is a very big deal to that demographic because they will most likely use it at some point.

Occasionally I will get a reply card from someone outside the norm. I had one last fall that I called and made an appointment with. We made it at noon because he said said he would be home for lunch then. When I got there at noon, he wasn't home. It was a nice home in and old money section of town, but, not elaborate. The wife told me that he couldn't get away from work, but that he had said I could down to his work and talk to him if I wanted. She told me that he worked on the top floor of a local bank. I decide to go down there. This guy had sent in an FEmailer and was 76 years old. In my mind I'm thinking he is a janitor or something at this building.

I get ther and go through security and get to the top floor. I ask for the fellow and the lady says she will take me to his office and he is expecting me. Turns out he is semi retired, but, is one of the founding partners of the largest law firm in Evansville, In. He wanted a $25,000 whole life on himself and his wife and wished to pay annually. I , at first, tried to talk to him about other option since he was not the normal FE client. He wanted nothing to do with UL, GUL, SPWL, term, etc. He knew what he wanted and, if I would write it, I had the business. I happily did what he wanted.

So, yes, I would look at other options for people outside the norm, but, if one deals in the FE market all the time, they understand exactly what I'm talking about. I consider Newby to be the most knowledable person I've ever had dealings with on the subject of FE. He will not sell UL for FE. know the top FE agent in the country very well and he will not sell UL for FE.