Taxing Employer Benefits. About Time ...

[Yagents]

Re: Taxing Employer Benefits...bout Time

Yagents sounds like a pinko commie!

No Commie here. Just pure conservative, free market kind of guy. Yes, I only sell IM, and do not have a group plan on the books.....by choice from day one. So, yes, I'm biased.

Why did I go this route? Cost is 1/2 that of group (in FL/AZ), and the client owns the policy vs. the employer (vs cobra then guar issue price issues).

The best scenario that could occur, and backed up by John Goodman, would be to have:

1. All employers drop coverage, focus on their niche, grow the business, hire people. (vs. health ins burden)
2. Employers increase salary by commensurate amount, let's say 80% of employer portion of premium.
3. Everyone gets to tax deduct premium on private market
4. Client finds cheaper policy on open market, with benefits based on individual needs, not employer controlled choices.
5. High risk pool for uninsurables (include gov't subsidies)
6. Everyone own an HSA plan (preferable)
7. Competition and lower prices would result with the consumer injected into the decision making.

But of course, the democrat PPACA goes in the opposite direction. Only the deficit reduction committee has the cajones to actually bring this matter up.
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought most agents here are self-employed...and if you sell individual health, employers dropping their plans is a good thing since you have potentially more prospects/clients. If you sell group health, that's a different story.

Exactly!

BTW, remember In the recently signed Small Business Jobs and Credit Act of 2010 (H.R. 5297), there is a provision that will allow self-employed business owners to "take a ONE YEAR tax deduction for health costs in determining your payroll tax in 2010". This means that a tax break equal to your health premiums in 2010 multiplied by 15.3% will be available at filing. http://newsmanager.commpartners.com/nahuw/downloads/What%20You%20Need%20To%20Know%20About%20the%20One-Year%20Tax%20Deduction%20On%20Health%20Costs%20for%20the%20Self-Employed.doc

 

[somarco]

Re: Taxing Employer Benefits...bout Time

tax free employer benefits is one major reason we're in this position.

Where did you come up with that idea?

Some of your other ideas about business don't jive with the real world. Have you been in Congress for several years? Those folks up there have an equally distorted view on what happens outside the beltway.

1. All employers drop coverage, focus on their niche, grow the business, hire people. (vs. health ins burden)
2. Employers increase salary by commensurate amount, let's say 80% of employer portion of premium.
3. Everyone gets to tax deduct premium on private market
4. Client finds cheaper policy on open market, with benefits based on individual needs, not employer controlled choices.
5. High risk pool for uninsurables (include gov't subsidies)
6. Everyone own an HSA plan (preferable)
7. Competition and lower prices would result with the consumer injected into the decision making.

1. Drop coverage, pay the fine (if they have more than 50 employees).

2. Don't expect pay raises. Even if they do they won't be 80% of the cost of health insurance. Not even close.

3. Congress is moving toward eliminating personal tax deductions, not increasing them.

4. Cheaper only until 2014, then 2x to 3x what they are now. Even higher if the individual mandate is trashed.

5. PCIP is heavily subsidized but hardly anyone is buying. They are waiting on the free stuff.

6. Nice, but most folks won't give up their copay.

7. Whatever you are smoking, pass it over.

free market kind of guy

Really?

I thought from reading your posts you were a woman.

 

[Yagents]

Re: Taxing Employer Benefits...bout Time

I could respond to each of your comments with a valid counter points, but I'd have to pull my dress up first.

 

[aheff]

Re: Taxing Employer Benefits...bout Time

Many employers will dump their employee paid health insurance. Not most, though. Three reasons. Unions will never go for it. Individuals believe it is their God given right to have employer paid coverage. And if the floodgates do open up, our govt could never, ever afford this huge new entitlement.

 

[somarco]

Re: Taxing Employer Benefits...bout Time

Unions only have about 12% of the workforce. They will be forced to accept lower benefits and higher OOP or lose their jobs.

It really doesn't matter what employees think about their "God given right". They don't run the company and pay the bills.

The bloated govt can't cover existing liabilities for Medicare, Medicaid and SS. When this thing blows up whoever is in DC is a goner.

 

[stuy119]

Re: Taxing Employer Benefits...bout Time

Many employers will dump their employee paid health insurance. Not most, though. Three reasons. Unions will never go for it. Individuals believe it is their God given right to have employer paid coverage. And if the floodgates do open up, our govt could never, ever afford this huge new entitlement.

Unions will dump their plans, too, when they are paying high taxes on them and don't get any type of financial benefit from offering them to their members. Not to mention having less issue dealing with the administration of the plans.

 

[Josh]

Re: Taxing Employer Benefits...bout Time

Yagent you make no sense.

Could not agree more. I thought conservatives were against taxes. Sounds more to me like he can only see the country from his limited point of view. I realize I'm from a strange part of the world, but if employers drop coverage in NY then folks simply don't get insurance. It's all GI and even with a subsidy, which is hard to get, you're still looking at over rates that are *HIGHER* than individual. Again, I realize New York is an odd part of the world, but group health plans do make a ton of sense for a lot of folks, including tax payers and agents.

 

[dgoldenz]

Re: Taxing Employer Benefits...bout Time

Could not agree more. I thought conservatives were against taxes. Sounds more to me like he can only see the country from his limited point of view. I realize I'm from a strange part of the world, but if employers drop coverage in NY then folks simply don't get insurance. It's all GI and even with a subsidy, which is hard to get, you're still looking at over rates that are *HIGHER* than individual. Again, I realize New York is an odd part of the world, but group health plans do make a ton of sense for a lot of folks, including tax payers and agents.

I think the issue most people have is that the taxation isn't equivalent based on your health plan. At least the self-employed can generally write off their premiums, though I'm not a CPA. The ones that really get screwed are those who don't get a group plan and buy individual that can't write it off unless it exceeds 7.5% of AGI (soon to be 10% thanks to health reform).

 

[Rivers1]

Unions already dropping some coverage because of cost.

Labor Union Health Fund Drops Children

 

[Yagents]

Re: Taxing Employer Benefits...bout Time

Could not agree more. I thought conservatives were against taxes. Sounds more to me like he can only see the country from his limited point of view. I realize I'm from a strange part of the world, but if employers drop coverage in NY then folks simply don't get insurance. It's all GI and even with a subsidy, which is hard to get, you're still looking at over rates that are *HIGHER* than individual. Again, I realize New York is an odd part of the world, but group health plans do make a ton of sense for a lot of folks, including tax payers and agents.

If that's the case, I can't wait until employers start offering car and home insurance to their "on the nipple" employees. I guess most american employees are just plain dumb, and need a nanny state employer to wipe themselves. You're the same person who asks: "Why are employers shipping jobs overseas?". If you read my comments above, I state that all could tax deduct premiums, and with the HSA, tax deduct the OOP too.
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Where did you come up with that idea?

Some of your other ideas about business don't jive with the real world. Have you been in Congress for several years? Those folks up there have an equally distorted view on what happens outside the beltway.




1. Drop coverage, pay the fine (if they have more than 50 employees).

2. Don't expect pay raises. Even if they do they won't be 80% of the cost of health insurance. Not even close.

3. Congress is moving toward eliminating personal tax deductions, not increasing them.

4. Cheaper only until 2014, then 2x to 3x what they are now. Even higher if the individual mandate is trashed.

5. PCIP is heavily subsidized but hardly anyone is buying. They are waiting on the free stuff.

6. Nice, but most folks won't give up their copay.

7. Whatever you are smoking, pass it over.



Really?

I thought from reading your posts you were a woman.

I changed my mind, and decided to share a response. Here's the real world, unless you didn't pay attn to the electioin:

1. Company's manage bottom lines, paying the penalty and dropping coverage will increase bottom line.
2. So, you believe that employers will continue to offer group coverage because they "care", but if they drop it, they won't pass on a large portion of it with higher salary. I guess most employers become bipolar after dropping the health plan.
3. Congress is moving towards equalizing the tax deductions, so the rich can't deduct everything under the sun. think about the person who has no access to a 401k, or a group plan, who rents, has meds, and no kids or grown up. can you say 1040EZ?
4. Yes, IM will go higher to group/GI rates, and that's why we need 200 million new consumers asking questions, and insurance companies actually competing on prices.
5. They spread the $5B too thin, thinking the PCIP would be overwhelmed. They will continue to reallocate higher subsidies until the number of perople match money available. Gov't can't get it right the first time, come on.
6. People don't have a copay format on any other type of insurance they own (car, home, life, etc.), you underestimate the ability to re-educate. Why do you think HSA's are the fastest growing segment
7. It's illegal in AZ, but they did just pass med pot. Maybe you can get me an rx for it, since you think I'm a lunatic.