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especially holding security licenses like we both...couldn't imagine having to explain to FINRA why I was handing forms that were wills to clients, and helping them fill in blanks
This is how Mark Rosenthal Sells Ins.
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especially holding security licenses like we both...couldn't imagine having to explain to FINRA why I was handing forms that were wills to clients, and helping them fill in blanks
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- #132
I would never make up or write an living will up for anyone. Each state has different laws about what is required.
We are all talking about two different things. He is write you cant pretend to be a lawyer and make up a legal doc.
Anyone is allowed to hand someone a legal living will.
Just a reminder, we are not talking about a will, but a living will. They are very simple to use. The living will kits that I hand out has the state law on it and was made by a lawyer.
I recommend that you dont do anything that you think is wrong.
Maybe we should go after the doctor offices and the
library next for offering us a free living will.
We are all talking about two different things. He is write you cant pretend to be a lawyer and make up a legal doc.
Anyone is allowed to hand someone a legal living will.
Just a reminder, we are not talking about a will, but a living will. They are very simple to use. The living will kits that I hand out has the state law on it and was made by a lawyer.
I recommend that you dont do anything that you think is wrong.
Maybe we should go after the doctor offices and the
library next for offering us a free living will.
Some of these comments need a little massaging to be understood properly. Sprinkle in a little common sense, too.
For example: The distinction between a "will" and a "living will" can be best illustrated if you spell it out: "Last Will and Testament" vs "Living Will".... to make it simple, a dead person's will vs a living person's will. The confusion perpetrated by the legal industry over these terms is why states are finally changing the terms to Advanced Directives from Living Will, and it's long overdue.
As for giving legal advice, anyone who drafts an Advanced Directive (or Living Will) for someone else is practicing law. Giving someone a blank form, called "Legal Form" or whatever, is not practicing law, just as in the post referring to handing someone a scalpel is not practicing medicine. Now if they used the scalpel on someone else, that's another issue. It may not be practicing medicine, it may be felony assault.
I use Legal Shield (member since 2004 - formerly called Pre-Paid Legal/PPL), and sell it, too. The offer to the interested client includes a subscription to a low cost attorney retainer which includes the services of a free will. This does not constitute practicing law, yet I have had prospects ask me if I am an attorney. People make irrational assumptions every day.
Mark's offer of providing a free living will is not the only agency doing this. It is a good segway into Final Expense and Funeral Trusts. I would not advise offering a "free will", however, using the term "Advanced Directive" may not be understood, and I see nothing wrong about using the term "Living Will", which is synonymous. One would be expected to explain what it is, which is the object.
I would definitely refer people to an attorney for the preparation of a "will". (A personal note here: my sister died recently and left a simple will to which she had two witnesses sign and then notarized. However, it did not meet state standards and is not recognized for the transfer of real property. It passed muster for personal property, but has to be run through the probate court before it will be declared valid.)
For those of you selling Final Expense, have you given thought to what your client will be faced with if they need to go on Medicaid with the policy you sold them? Or do you just leave them on their own? Do you explain that once the cash value exceeds $1500, it will be countable towards their assets for Medicaid assistance? What are they to do in this situation? If you have discussed funeral pre-planning, which follows from your discussion on living wills/advanced directives, you can bring up this subject naturally. And there are always some that will argue that agencies offering Funeral Pre-planning should leave this to funeral directors. Here's another conundrum: Do you know the difference between funeral pre-planning and funeral contracting or at-need? Ill advice may be given to have seniors set up an irrevocable trust when they are not close to going on Medicaid. Does that mean no agent should sell Funeral Trusts? There is always a right way and a wrong way to go about insurance sales.
Learn the right way. Think. Do the right thing.
For example: The distinction between a "will" and a "living will" can be best illustrated if you spell it out: "Last Will and Testament" vs "Living Will".... to make it simple, a dead person's will vs a living person's will. The confusion perpetrated by the legal industry over these terms is why states are finally changing the terms to Advanced Directives from Living Will, and it's long overdue.
As for giving legal advice, anyone who drafts an Advanced Directive (or Living Will) for someone else is practicing law. Giving someone a blank form, called "Legal Form" or whatever, is not practicing law, just as in the post referring to handing someone a scalpel is not practicing medicine. Now if they used the scalpel on someone else, that's another issue. It may not be practicing medicine, it may be felony assault.
I use Legal Shield (member since 2004 - formerly called Pre-Paid Legal/PPL), and sell it, too. The offer to the interested client includes a subscription to a low cost attorney retainer which includes the services of a free will. This does not constitute practicing law, yet I have had prospects ask me if I am an attorney. People make irrational assumptions every day.
Mark's offer of providing a free living will is not the only agency doing this. It is a good segway into Final Expense and Funeral Trusts. I would not advise offering a "free will", however, using the term "Advanced Directive" may not be understood, and I see nothing wrong about using the term "Living Will", which is synonymous. One would be expected to explain what it is, which is the object.
I would definitely refer people to an attorney for the preparation of a "will". (A personal note here: my sister died recently and left a simple will to which she had two witnesses sign and then notarized. However, it did not meet state standards and is not recognized for the transfer of real property. It passed muster for personal property, but has to be run through the probate court before it will be declared valid.)
For those of you selling Final Expense, have you given thought to what your client will be faced with if they need to go on Medicaid with the policy you sold them? Or do you just leave them on their own? Do you explain that once the cash value exceeds $1500, it will be countable towards their assets for Medicaid assistance? What are they to do in this situation? If you have discussed funeral pre-planning, which follows from your discussion on living wills/advanced directives, you can bring up this subject naturally. And there are always some that will argue that agencies offering Funeral Pre-planning should leave this to funeral directors. Here's another conundrum: Do you know the difference between funeral pre-planning and funeral contracting or at-need? Ill advice may be given to have seniors set up an irrevocable trust when they are not close to going on Medicaid. Does that mean no agent should sell Funeral Trusts? There is always a right way and a wrong way to go about insurance sales.
Learn the right way. Think. Do the right thing.
So, I can't tell a person they should consider a living will without acting as a lawyer.. But I can recommend they place a life insurance policy in an irrevocable funeral trust and help them execute the document to put it in force and that isn't a violation
?
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The problem is if you get 9 insurance agents, 9 "financial advisers", 9 attorneys and 9 accountants together, you are probably going to have 34 different opinions as to what is the right thing (two of the insurance agents will agree with each other providing there is a commission split)
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Thought this might be the to which you refer but it was brought by the Columbus Bar. These folks were actually preparing the documents. That is a far cry from what we have been talking abut doing.
http://consumer-law.lawyers.com/con...-Fined-Millions-for-Bilking-Ohio-Seniors.html
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The problem is if you get 9 insurance agents, 9 "financial advisers", 9 attorneys and 9 accountants together, you are probably going to have 34 different opinions as to what is the right thing (two of the insurance agents will agree with each other providing there is a commission split)
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Thought this might be the to which you refer but it was brought by the Columbus Bar. These folks were actually preparing the documents. That is a far cry from what we have been talking abut doing.
http://consumer-law.lawyers.com/con...-Fined-Millions-for-Bilking-Ohio-Seniors.html
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Actually this was the one he was referring to.
http://www.sconet.state.oh.us/rod/docs/pdf/0/2005/2005-ohio-6044.pdf
Addison, as well, was drafting all sorts of legal documents on his own. I wonder if he even read the filing himself. Red Herring, Straw Man, Reductio ad Absurdum etc etc ...
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Q. What do I write here or what does this mean?
A. Write this or this means = Potential land mine.
A. Write this or this means = Potential land mine.
G
Guest
Guest
I see no legal problems about sending someone the advanced directive or living will or whatever it is in your state. I have a link to one on my website for people to get if they wish. It was an idea Mark had a couple of years ago here.
What has worked better for me is to "partner" with a law firm that specializes in estate planning in general, and family trusts in particular.
I ask clients if they have a family trust to avoid probate and if they say they don't I tell them I'm going to ask Trudy who owns the law firm I deal with to call them. No one ever objects. Of course Trudy sends me life, DI, and health referrals. Win-win.
Almost all attorneys will include the preparation of the living will/advance directive with the trust package.
As an aside, all of you should have a family trust done (assuming you have a family and an estate of some value.) And I suggest you not use an online service but a real human (as much as they can be
) lawyer.
I just went through the process a few months ago, out of necessity.
I did a lot of research on my own about family trusts.
There is a lot more to this trust stuff than I expected... as there are different trusts for different situations and there is no way you are going to be able to pick the right one without guidance from someone who does this every day.
Be prepared to spend upward to $3,000 but you can make a deal with the lawyer for a lower fee after you have referred a few people to them. Most will give you a 50% discount as a courtesy. Mine did... and probably regretted it because we have a complex estate... and she had to deal with my very expensive wife on it... not a fun thing!!
Do this (and have your clients do it.) Do it especially if someone in the family is going to have serious surgery (or any surgery) as is happening with my wife in April. I'm 64 and at a age where friends are starting to die. I've seen how stressful it is to settle an estate after the death of a spouse and I've seen how much less stress there is when it's all been "settled" in advance via trusts set up by a competent attorney. It's money well spent.
Talking about all of this is not a "fun" thing, but it needs to be done... because you just never know. Believe me, as we go into this surgery, it's one BIG thing I don't have to worry about if worse becomes worst.
Al
I am at this website.
What has worked better for me is to "partner" with a law firm that specializes in estate planning in general, and family trusts in particular.
I ask clients if they have a family trust to avoid probate and if they say they don't I tell them I'm going to ask Trudy who owns the law firm I deal with to call them. No one ever objects. Of course Trudy sends me life, DI, and health referrals. Win-win.
Almost all attorneys will include the preparation of the living will/advance directive with the trust package.
As an aside, all of you should have a family trust done (assuming you have a family and an estate of some value.) And I suggest you not use an online service but a real human (as much as they can be
) lawyer. I just went through the process a few months ago, out of necessity.
I did a lot of research on my own about family trusts.
There is a lot more to this trust stuff than I expected... as there are different trusts for different situations and there is no way you are going to be able to pick the right one without guidance from someone who does this every day.
Be prepared to spend upward to $3,000 but you can make a deal with the lawyer for a lower fee after you have referred a few people to them. Most will give you a 50% discount as a courtesy. Mine did... and probably regretted it because we have a complex estate... and she had to deal with my very expensive wife on it... not a fun thing!!
Do this (and have your clients do it.) Do it especially if someone in the family is going to have serious surgery (or any surgery) as is happening with my wife in April. I'm 64 and at a age where friends are starting to die. I've seen how stressful it is to settle an estate after the death of a spouse and I've seen how much less stress there is when it's all been "settled" in advance via trusts set up by a competent attorney. It's money well spent.
Talking about all of this is not a "fun" thing, but it needs to be done... because you just never know. Believe me, as we go into this surgery, it's one BIG thing I don't have to worry about if worse becomes worst.
Al
I am at this website.
iFinalExpense.com
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- 19
Great stuff Mark. Thanks for the info you shared. We appreciate the time you put into this.
- 264
Agreed! @Mark: We all enjoy reading your ideas and encouragements. Keep them coming and please do not let the potential post takeover keep you from writing future useful posts.
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