Why Do Captives Have Much More Restrictive Underwriting?

[KidsGotHeart]

A good Captive agent selling Fully Underwritten Whole Life is not going to sell face amounts above the Non-Med Limits.

Simply put. That is why there are so many policies in the household with the Captive. They Stack policies every year or two so they don't go through the med requirements.

Problem is that you look at any branch office of a Captive and there are only a handful of agents that are still agents after 2-3 years. Most were promoted prematurely into management and do not really know how to sell and they just teach the typical Home Office Marketing crap that is regurgitated out by people who have never sold a policy or qualified a prospect.

Training an agent died in 1992 and has not returned yet. The one agent that actually does a good job training agents on this forum that I have gotten to know is Ben (bboman23) and all he gets is a bunch of a wining from the WinerExpress.

If you get training from an experienced agent that is willing to train you on Marketing, Qualifying and Writing the business, then you are way ahead of the game.

Well put. I have never sold 200k worth of FE to one person.

 

[Larry Tew]

A good Captive agent selling Fully Underwritten Whole Life is not going to sell face amounts above the Non-Med Limits.

Simply put. That is why there are so many policies in the household with the Captive. They Stack policies every year or two so they don't go through the med requirements.

I must not be understanding your meaning. Everything at 100k or more is at least lab work. 100k is the minimum face for qualifying for Preferred. Why would a good agent try to stack small policies in order to fly below the underwriting radar?

Why would a good agent purposely cost a client multiple policy fees and miss better premium banding at larger face amounts?

Companies usually aggregate the total amount of all previously issued non-med business within a certain time frame, so stacking a bunch of 50's in order to dodge underwriting isn't going to work long-term.

And... if medical underwriting begins at 100k and an agent submits an app for 95k, guess what the underwriter is going to do? Order a paramed.

 

[bluemarlin08]

The reason I was curious about uw and non uw, was recently was asked to review 2 non uw final expense policies, one for 25k another for 30. These folks weren't preferred but appeared to at least be standard. The savings over their curren plans was substantial. They both stated that the agent never discussed a fully uw option.

 

[TwiLight]

I must not be understanding your meaning. Everything at 100k or more is at least lab work.

Too much thinking Larry. My point was that a Captive agent that has more than a couple years experience, knows that stacking 25-50k policies in a household over a couple years to avoid Meds is how to survive.

Not many agents that consistently insure 100k+ for Whole life will mind the Med/Fluid requirements.

No independent guys like yourself with experience will not be looking to stack policies. Surviving in the captive world is all about apps written and quick issue and you cannot do that with big cases and underwriting unless you are experienced enough to do that. Most Captives that have experience don't last long in their system. They go indy or are promoted to management.

 

[scagnt83]

A good Captive agent selling Fully Underwritten Whole Life is not going to sell face amounts above the Non-Med Limits.

TwiLight, what Captive agency did you work at????

Because that the exact opposite of what I experienced at NYL.


I have also worked on the indy side with captive Mass, guardian, & NWM guys... and none of their shops operated like that....

Well put. I have never sold 200k worth of FE to one person.

I have because it was their absolute only option available.


But most Captive agencies, especially the Mutuals, are geared to sell larger fully underwritten policies. There might be a few offices around the country that try to pull crap like that. But when it comes to the major mutuals that is not standard operating procedure for them at all.


If you are getting trailer park leads from Mass, then you need to learn to prospect on your own. You will never make it at MM trying to sell low income people. And you will never make it in this industry if you rely on captives providing you leads.

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Too much thinking Larry. My point was that a Captive agent that has more than a couple years experience, knows that stacking 25-50k policies in a household over a couple years to avoid Meds is how to survive.

Again, exact opposite of most major mutual agencies I have experienced.

 

[TwiLight]

TwiLight, what Captive agency did you worj at?

I was at MetLife for 4 years and have hired and trained countless number of former career agents with a similar story as I speak of as an indy MGA in Michigan.

I am speaking about the masses of asses that are career captive. How many agents are actually there with more than a year experience? Very few people survive with a careeer captive selling $200k+ whole life policies. 10% in an office maybe.

Indy agents that acess Mutual products is not what I speak of either. Totally different.

 

[scagnt83]

I was at MetLife for 4 years and have hired and trained countless number of former career agents with a similar story as I speak of as an indy MGA in Michigan.

I am speaking about the masses of asses that are career captive. How many agents are actually there with more than a year experience? Very few people survive with a careeer captive selling $200k+ whole life policies. 10% in an office maybe.

Indy agents that acess Mutual products is not what I speak of either. Totally different.

I am not talking about indy agents either. I was a true captive at NYL. Toured multiple NYL offices throughout the southeast, spoke to many different agents in many different offices from all over the country during my time there.

Our office (and most others) had over 50% of their agent force as experienced (over 3 years) agents.
The successful agents at NYL sold UW policies.


As an indy, our agency has a selling agreement with MM & Guardian captive offices. Their captive agents use us when MM/Guardian cant underwrite the risk or does not have the appropriate product.
What you described is the polar opposite of what goes on at the Captive agencies we work with. (or at least the majority of biz we receive from them)


In my experience, very few agents survive being captive writing small face policies.

But again, I am talking about the big mutuals. And while Met is big, they are not mutual. The Mutuals have a different atmosphere and mindset in business practices from my experiences. They want quality business.

 

[KidsGotHeart]

TwiLight, what Captive agency did you work at????

Because that the exact opposite of what I experienced at NYL.




If you are getting trailer park leads from Mass, then you need to learn to prospect on your own. You will never make it at MM trying to sell low income people. And you will never make it in this industry if you rely on captives providing you leads.

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Again, exact opposite of most major mutual agencies I have experienced.

I do prospect on my own and have numerous other lead sources; however, when leads are just given to me I will work them. I don't rely on MM's leads.

 

[Norwayguy]

I am not talking about indy agents either. I was a true captive at NYL. Toured multiple NYL offices throughout the southeast, spoke to many different agents in many different offices from all over the country during my time there.

Our office (and most others) had over 50% of their agent force as experienced (over 3 years) agents.
The successful agents at NYL sold UW policies.

As an indy, our agency has a selling agreement with MM & Guardian captive offices. Their captive agents use us when MM/Guardian cant underwrite the risk or does not have the appropriate product.
What you described is the polar opposite of what goes on at the Captive agencies we work with. (or at least the majority of biz we receive from them)

In my experience, very few agents survive being captive writing small face policies.

But again, I am talking about the big mutuals. And while Met is big, they are not mutual. The Mutuals have a different atmosphere and mindset in business practices from my experiences. They want quality business.

We might want to quantify "when" twilight had his experience with Met I seem to remember he has been around for a while he might go back to Mets mutual days and let's not forget most of those carriers made bank with industrial policies in the day so layering small policies on each other was something that happened.

 

[TwiLight]

We might want to quantify "when" twilight had his experience with Met I seem to remember he has been around for a while he might go back to Mets mutual days and let's not forget most of those carriers made bank with industrial policies in the day so layering small policies on each other was something that happened.

Are you calling me OLD...Hold on its nap time...