- 26,009
Just curious what your agents recommended if you ran this past them?
Angry and Frustrated!!
- Thread starter jcrew
- Start date
Just curious what your agents recommended if you ran this past them?
- 4,132
tlmarketing... Thanks for the info. Let me draw you into a comment that I hope you understand. If not, well this might be a bit difficult.
"The normal maximum for those at the top step, which is 11 years and a master’s degree plus 30 credits, is $106,934. Eight CREA members make $110,142 a year because they’re at the top step and have doctorate degrees.
It appears your school district has a lot of experienced well educated teachers. Is it OK if I assume you paid for and completed college? Is it also OK that you maybe looked at the cost and time of either a Masters (1 to 2 years additional education) or even a doctorate (additional 4-6 years) so you have a good understanding of the time and addtional cost involved? Yes? No?
Your teachers are on a step salary structure combined with additional compensation for additional education on their part. Really not that unusual in any field, even ours. Most people who go onto spend the money and the time to become CHFCs make more money. Your school district through salary enhancement encourages continued education and self improvement for their teachers.
In taking a quick look at your school distirct...
Council Rock SOUTH Report Card / Distinctions
Ranked by Newsweek as one of best high schools in United States, top 10 in state of Pennsylvania
86% of students taking the Advanced Placement Examination scored a 3 or higher
The Class of 2011 was awarded over $4,000,000.00 in scholarships
CRN Report Card / Points of Pride
Philadelphia Magazine recognition as one of the top schools in the Philadelphia Metropolitan Area; Council Rock High Schools were the only high schools in Bucks County named to the "50 Best Schools List" (2004); Council Rock North named as top public school in Bucks County (2005, 2006, 2008, 2009
SAT scores far exceeding the national and state averages, with Critical Reading, Writing and Math average scores of 544, 570 and 558 respectively
You're getting your money's worth. I was a bit worried before I started looking but Bejesus! Your kids in that district do pretty well it appears.
In education, that's usually a sign of an experienced work force in play. Take a closer look at your district and let me know if you find different. From the information posted, it looks like a good place to raise kids.
more..
86% of students taking the Advanced Placement Examination scored a 3 or higher.Image:
"The normal maximum for those at the top step, which is 11 years and a master’s degree plus 30 credits, is $106,934. Eight CREA members make $110,142 a year because they’re at the top step and have doctorate degrees.
It appears your school district has a lot of experienced well educated teachers. Is it OK if I assume you paid for and completed college? Is it also OK that you maybe looked at the cost and time of either a Masters (1 to 2 years additional education) or even a doctorate (additional 4-6 years) so you have a good understanding of the time and addtional cost involved? Yes? No?
Your teachers are on a step salary structure combined with additional compensation for additional education on their part. Really not that unusual in any field, even ours. Most people who go onto spend the money and the time to become CHFCs make more money. Your school district through salary enhancement encourages continued education and self improvement for their teachers.
In taking a quick look at your school distirct...
Council Rock SOUTH Report Card / Distinctions
Ranked by Newsweek as one of best high schools in United States, top 10 in state of Pennsylvania
86% of students taking the Advanced Placement Examination scored a 3 or higher
The Class of 2011 was awarded over $4,000,000.00 in scholarships
CRN Report Card / Points of Pride
Philadelphia Magazine recognition as one of the top schools in the Philadelphia Metropolitan Area; Council Rock High Schools were the only high schools in Bucks County named to the "50 Best Schools List" (2004); Council Rock North named as top public school in Bucks County (2005, 2006, 2008, 2009
SAT scores far exceeding the national and state averages, with Critical Reading, Writing and Math average scores of 544, 570 and 558 respectively
- AP results for 407 students taking 662 exams: 46% 5; 29% 4; 18% 3.
- Graduation rate that is above 99%.
You're getting your money's worth. I was a bit worried before I started looking but Bejesus! Your kids in that district do pretty well it appears.
In education, that's usually a sign of an experienced work force in play. Take a closer look at your district and let me know if you find different. From the information posted, it looks like a good place to raise kids.
more..
86% of students taking the Advanced Placement Examination scored a 3 or higher.
The Class of 2011 was awarded over $4,000,000.00 in scholarships.
Image: Students volunteered over 49,000 hours in our LINCS program.
Image: Athletic program recognized as a leader in the state for athletic accomplishments by the Pennsylvania Interscholastic Athletic Association.
Image: Music program consistently awarded superior ratings for entire music program in local, state, national, and international festivals.
Image: Theatre program recognized internationally for their excellence in acting.
Image: Students and staff dedicated to building an outstanding educational institution.
Image: Interactive whiteboards and projectors in virtually every classroom and lab. Over 1,500 computers/laptops are in use daily.
- 26,009
So these teachers are very smart. And they earn what they are worth. What should we do with the teachers in less well performing schools?
BTW, serious question.
BTW, serious question.
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- 4,132
What should we do with the teachers in less well performing schools?
BTW, serious question."
As far as underperforming teachers who need to improve or leave. Make sure your principals FOLLOW the established format for review, training, disipline and corrective actions. A school with under performing teachers usually has a weak prinicpal.
Please don't confuse "weak" to mean a better prinicpal should be an A hole as a solution. A better prinicpal exhuasts themselves in giving their staff every means to succeed, It may mean working with a weaker teacher to make sure the weakness is or isn't correctable.
I was taught management theory that revolved around a failed employee is a failure for the manager as the manager's first job is to make that employee successful.
The problem right now in education is most prinicpals aren't good managers. The first thing education needs to do is bring those managers (principals) up to speed. They need to be taught skills that make them better coaches of their educators.
Just a little bit wino? Unlike rocket science, solving the education problem is hard. If you want to set up a forum question to continue I would participate.
I'd love to post more here, but I promised myself to badger Bob at least once an hour today.
But I am open for long friendly debate on education. I raised two National Merit Scholars through pubic schools. I do know what or how to find success in a public school system, at least how it worked for us. And my school district isn't close to the guy from philly. From the quick look, his district looks like from the top down to be driven. But even with the results they have, the two posters are the article are typical knee jerk offs. They have no idea how good their district is, but produce that sterotypical b itch and moan.
BTW, serious question."
As far as underperforming teachers who need to improve or leave. Make sure your principals FOLLOW the established format for review, training, disipline and corrective actions. A school with under performing teachers usually has a weak prinicpal.
Please don't confuse "weak" to mean a better prinicpal should be an A hole as a solution. A better prinicpal exhuasts themselves in giving their staff every means to succeed, It may mean working with a weaker teacher to make sure the weakness is or isn't correctable.
I was taught management theory that revolved around a failed employee is a failure for the manager as the manager's first job is to make that employee successful.
The problem right now in education is most prinicpals aren't good managers. The first thing education needs to do is bring those managers (principals) up to speed. They need to be taught skills that make them better coaches of their educators.
Just a little bit wino? Unlike rocket science, solving the education problem is hard. If you want to set up a forum question to continue I would participate.
I'd love to post more here, but I promised myself to badger Bob at least once an hour today.
But I am open for long friendly debate on education. I raised two National Merit Scholars through pubic schools. I do know what or how to find success in a public school system, at least how it worked for us. And my school district isn't close to the guy from philly. From the quick look, his district looks like from the top down to be driven. But even with the results they have, the two posters are the article are typical knee jerk offs. They have no idea how good their district is, but produce that sterotypical b itch and moan.
- 9,744
1) Get the federal government, state government and local school bureaucrats out of the equation. Push the authority, responsibility and funding down to where it belongs: with the principals and teachers.
2) Make the whole thing a voucher program, where parents have a choice, and schools have to compete. Works very well where it's used.
- 26,009
Last question on this. Pinky swear. I do not want to come off as anti teacher, I am not. I am more anti Teacher's Union. I assume poor teachers are somewhat educated and adults. I also assume they know they are poor teachers and what needs to be done. They should not be teaching our children till they improve. Same as a poor doctor should not be practicing medicine on my kids.
So my question is this: how do we quickly get rid of them with out having to bribe them out?
- 15,041
You know I respect you, after all who else brews beer here.
They tried this here, the teacher's union threw an absolute fit over it. They have fought the entire process of evaluating them and then acting on those evaluations tooth and nail. Also, there is a job pool for tenured teachers that do not have a position. They try to match them with open positions. It seems some principals no longer want them and are trying to hire new teachers instead. Yet again, the union is fighting this every step of the way.
Also, blaming the parents is a poor argument. Yes, it seems too many parents could care less if their children learn anything. However, that should not be an excuse. At this point, the teachers know this going in. Unless you are living under a rock or only attended private schools you know there are plenty of children and their parents who care nothing about education. Second, attendance is compulsory. You are required to send your children to school or provide home schooling. If you force all children to attend, then you have to accept all children.
- 4,132
"So my question is this: how do we quickly get rid of them with out having to bribe them out? "
Well I agree it is a problem simply because how many good teachers are you willing to burn through in the process?
While teachers unions can be accused of protecting deadwood, they also protect the great wood too.
Education is a very personal situation.. As a parent, I loved my kids Chem teacher, he kicked a ss. Both kids A and 5's on the AP exam for Chemistry. The kid who sat next to my kid, took an F, how do you think his parents felt about the teacher? So you have a situation where in one case, all the testing results were best in the country (actually top 1% all told) and another for the same teacher where the kids scored a zero and maybe 25% in the class. So is the teacher good or bad? I can give you my answer, but what about the other parent? How do they view the teacher?
The hardest part in all of this is we try to streamline or fix success to mean one thing and one thing only in education which creates the problem with this teacher... is he an education god or a schmuk?
Oh by the way, this guy sat on the board of the local union too. HE worked kids arses off, but also stayed late, bought pizza and helped the hell out of them.. At least those who wanted to succeed.
As I said rocket science is easier than figuring out education as education has far more factors than jet propulsion. Rocket science isn't plauged by "I just don't feel like it today" by any of the components involved. Education is. It is hard to create a solid working solution when so many variables could f the entire thing up at anytime. It could be the parent, the student, the teacher, the buddies, the boy/girlfriends, and a thousand other things that get in the way of a good day's education.. or not.
Like any occupation, there is not 100% quality. It's a goal to be 100%, but it is not real. The question becomes in dealing with the 2% that need to leave the field, how many of the 98% are we willing to drive away as well?
Not every bad teacher is bad and not every good teacher is good. Sometimes it just depends on what day it is....
Also this is how we chose to deal with the 2%.. we worked around them. There's study groups, the library, the internet and the good ole text book. There's an education in itself in learning to overcome a weak teacher. You learn something different, even more helpful.
I mean if all of us who are independent felt our sales managers knew their stuff, we'd all still be captured yes?
I had a large corporation pay for my education. I was a best and brightest at one time. I worked with some great managers and some really bad. The worst one I worked with, ended up with me calling the guy above him (my sponsor), after he heard my tale.. he simply said "Larry, everything you told me is correct, but the reason you're there is I want you to learn by watching how somebody does it wrong, because if you're smart you'll learn something there as well."
It was a good answer. As a parent I've used that answer myself with my kids when faced with a less than great educator. The few weak ones they had, may have done more or had more to do with my kids success than all the great ones we had. Why? they learned to work on their own. Search on their own and do on their own. None of those are poor traits to have...
sorry for the long post.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -Well I agree it is a problem simply because how many good teachers are you willing to burn through in the process?
While teachers unions can be accused of protecting deadwood, they also protect the great wood too.
Education is a very personal situation.. As a parent, I loved my kids Chem teacher, he kicked a ss. Both kids A and 5's on the AP exam for Chemistry. The kid who sat next to my kid, took an F, how do you think his parents felt about the teacher? So you have a situation where in one case, all the testing results were best in the country (actually top 1% all told) and another for the same teacher where the kids scored a zero and maybe 25% in the class. So is the teacher good or bad? I can give you my answer, but what about the other parent? How do they view the teacher?
The hardest part in all of this is we try to streamline or fix success to mean one thing and one thing only in education which creates the problem with this teacher... is he an education god or a schmuk?
Oh by the way, this guy sat on the board of the local union too. HE worked kids arses off, but also stayed late, bought pizza and helped the hell out of them.. At least those who wanted to succeed.
As I said rocket science is easier than figuring out education as education has far more factors than jet propulsion. Rocket science isn't plauged by "I just don't feel like it today" by any of the components involved. Education is. It is hard to create a solid working solution when so many variables could f the entire thing up at anytime. It could be the parent, the student, the teacher, the buddies, the boy/girlfriends, and a thousand other things that get in the way of a good day's education.. or not.
Like any occupation, there is not 100% quality. It's a goal to be 100%, but it is not real. The question becomes in dealing with the 2% that need to leave the field, how many of the 98% are we willing to drive away as well?
Not every bad teacher is bad and not every good teacher is good. Sometimes it just depends on what day it is....
Also this is how we chose to deal with the 2%.. we worked around them. There's study groups, the library, the internet and the good ole text book. There's an education in itself in learning to overcome a weak teacher. You learn something different, even more helpful.
I mean if all of us who are independent felt our sales managers knew their stuff, we'd all still be captured yes?
I had a large corporation pay for my education. I was a best and brightest at one time. I worked with some great managers and some really bad. The worst one I worked with, ended up with me calling the guy above him (my sponsor), after he heard my tale.. he simply said "Larry, everything you told me is correct, but the reason you're there is I want you to learn by watching how somebody does it wrong, because if you're smart you'll learn something there as well."
It was a good answer. As a parent I've used that answer myself with my kids when faced with a less than great educator. The few weak ones they had, may have done more or had more to do with my kids success than all the great ones we had. Why? they learned to work on their own. Search on their own and do on their own. None of those are poor traits to have...
sorry for the long post.
Vol,
I understand what's happening there as it is happening here too. And I would bet it's for the same reasons too. The first thing to do is make sure your evaluators are top shelf, before they evaluate.
I've known a lot of superintendents and prinicipals over the years. Some are excellent, intelligent people. Some you think if breathing wasn't an automatic function, they'd be dead. Stupid creeps upwards more often than we'd like to think.
Here, the issue is are the prinicpals really the best judge? In some cases absolutely, in others, absolutely not. The first efforts should be spent making sure principals "have" classroom experience beyond a couple years. Maybe a decade so you experience kid cycles (aka class from hell) over the years.
As I said in another post, the management theory I was taught both educationally and professionally was when an employee fails, management fails as management brought them in and was responsible for their training and developement. Firing an employee means "you've failed" right along with them. So I agree with the teachers here that the frist thing if we're moving to more involved evaluations is let's make sure the person doing the evaluation is on top of their game too.
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