Annuities that Are Most Liquid

[Cash]

ME getting religious???? I'd say I'm the lone voice among a bunch of insurance agents who preach against ETF's because ETF's don't pay commissions. ETF's are bad for business so just call anyone who supports ETF's "radical" or "a religious kook".

Back to the topic at hand. Nobody is suggesting that people should invest in random mutual funds. You buy INDEX funds. Bonds and stocks. AGG and SPY. Buy hold and rebalance. There is no rocket science to holding and rebalancing. Did you see the chart that I found? Nobody lost money during the 2000's.

We don't know anything about the chart that you have shown. What ETFs where used for that chart exactly?

It has already been explained to you how Advisors and Brokers are paid off of ETFs; Wrap fees and management fees. There are plenty of people out there making a living at it, including Saint Bogle.

If people lose on the number one mutual fund then they are going to lose on your INDEX. Most of the big name mutual funds that are of the EVIL variety take something around 100 well known stocks, usually from the S&P 500 and buy those, basically an INDEX fund that allows the MF companies to charge more. Average investors lose money in those things when the market goes up and when the market goes down.

Also, when was the last time bonds were at such highs at the same time the stock market was at an all time high?

 

[Drifting]

We don't know anything about the chart that you have shown. What ETFs where used for that chart exactly?

It has already been explained to you how Advisors and Brokers are paid off of ETFs; Wrap fees and management fees. There are plenty of people out there making a living at it, including Saint Bogle.

If people lose on the number one mutual fund then they are going to lose on your INDEX. Most of the big name mutual funds that are of the EVIL variety take something around 100 well known stocks, usually from the S&P 500 and buy those, basically an INDEX fund that allows the MF companies to charge more. Average investors lose money in those things when the market goes up and when the market goes down.

Also, when was the last time bonds were at such highs at the same time the stock market was at an all time high?

This is yet another really stupid comment from you. The chart is based on statistical data. 10-year treasury + S&P 500 index. Historical Returns
You are really digging your own hole by trashing ETF's. It's comical that you would attack index funds. There is NO conflict of interest when you invest in ETF's like VOO and AGG via a deep discount brokerage firm like E Trade. Sounds like YOU sell insurance products and that's why you are spreading fear and misinformation. ETF's have super low annual fees of 0.05% - 0.08% per year. That blows whatever you sell out of the water. AND ETF's are 100% liquid. You can sell at any time for any reason.
I would never defend brokers. You are making a false choice: Annuity VS Broker. Do it yourself or hire a fee-only fiduciary for a one time meeting.
Again you simply diversify. LOOK AT THE CHART and stop ignoring what diversification is! If' you're somewhere between 25/75 and 33/67 you are going to easily beat the annuity products that YOU sell. Don't even get me started on the tax advantages of ETF's.

 

[DHK]

Last time I checked... this is an ANNUITY forum on an INSURANCE discussion forum.

If you want to debate asset allocation models, you can join a number of other discussion forums.

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Remember: NO asset allocation model out there has an income guarantee for life, nor eliminates portfolio losses EVERY year.

 

[Drifting]

Last time I checked... this is an ANNUITY forum on an INSURANCE discussion forum.

If you want to debate asset allocation models, you can join a number of other discussion forums.

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Remember: NO asset allocation model out there has an income guarantee for life, nor eliminates portfolio losses EVERY year.

Thank you for explaining the obvious. This is an annuity forum. Got it. I knew that. You want to suppress the flaws in annuities. You want to suppress knowledge about the competition (ETF's). You have a lot to hide. Again you are biased.

 

[DHK]

Yes... I am biased. This whole forum is biased.

As for the "flaws in annuities"... well, buying an annuity is a choice. As long as they are presented properly with full disclosure (which didn't happen in YOUR case), they are very suitable for many people.

 

[Drifting]

Yes... I am biased. This whole forum is biased.

As for the "flaws in annuities"... well, buying an annuity is a choice. As long as they are presented properly with full disclosure (which didn't happen in YOUR case), they are very suitable for many people.

For MANY people? Clark Howard has said there's almost NEVER a circumstance when an annuity is called for. Ric Edelman said that he's only sold about 10 annuity contracts to some 16,000 clients. I would describe that as very rare.
Presenting annuities with full disclosure should entail comparing then to index funds. This unfortunately never happens with insurance agents, otherwise they do no business.
Also you're talking about the lowly suitability standard, which is near useless. Try talking about the fiduciary standard.

 

[Norwayguy]

For MANY people? Clark Howard has said there's almost NEVER a circumstance when an annuity is called for. Ric Edelman said that he's only sold about 10 annuity contracts to some 16,000 clients. I would describe that as very rare.
Presenting annuities with full disclosure should entail comparing then to index funds. This unfortunately never happens with insurance agents, otherwise they do no business.
Also you're talking about the lowly suitability standard, which is near useless. Try talking about the fiduciary standard.

No standard truly protects you from someone willing to screw you. You mention a fiduciary standard such as that that RIAs have to abide by, need I even mention Madoff?

 

[TwiLight]

Let me throw a wrench in all of this and suggest that you invest in CD's and forget about it....

I am speaking of Market Linked Certificates of Deposit.... Fully FDIC insured with Zero risk to Principle if held to maturity with market upside.....

These CD's have been around for nearly 40 Years, long before Indexed Annuities and before Fee Based Index guys were popular.....

Just saying.... You all are barking at a dog that won't hunt.

 

[DHK]

For MANY people? Clark Howard has said there's almost NEVER a circumstance when an annuity is called for. Ric Edelman said that he's only sold about 10 annuity contracts to some 16,000 clients. I would describe that as very rare.
Presenting annuities with full disclosure should entail comparing then to index funds. This unfortunately never happens with insurance agents, otherwise they do no business.
Also you're talking about the lowly suitability standard, which is near useless. Try talking about the fiduciary standard.

Clark Howard is a financial entertainer with no credentials or licenses of any kind... therefore is a moot point in this discussion. I guess he loves the perpetual 12% return of the market? I don't... and no one else earns that either. And no professional who has licenses in our business will say the same thing either.

http://www.producersweb.com/r/pwebmc/d/contentFocus/?pcID=54c629b5cc21ececa0dc8024daf8909e

I respect Ric Edelman because he has built a thriving RIA with BILLIONS of AUM. He found his BUSINESS MODEL and has stuck with it.

So have the rest of us.

Comparing annuities to "index funds" may not be an appropriate comparison as index funds have the risk of principal loss, where fixed annuities do not. (Variable annuities do, and should have the underlying investments be suitable for the risk tolerance determined.)

ProducersWeb - Annuities - In search of suitability

Oh, guess what? Social security IS an annuity! And it is "suitable" for everyone.

Only annuities can do what they do - guarantee a lifetime income that you cannot outlive or outspend... as long as it is structured properly.

There is a PROPER and SUITABLE use for every legitimate financial product available. It is our job as financial professionals to understand our products, understand our client's needs and wants, and make appropriate recommendations.

Drifting, I'm going to say it: you're a troll. You're bitter and you have found an audience to blame and vent about your own problems. I suggest that you never engage in a relationship with any financial professional again... and just leave this forum for the licensed professionals.

 

[Newby]

Clark Howard is a financial entertainer with no credentials or licenses of any kind... therefore is a moot point in this discussion. I guess he loves the perpetual 12% return of the market? I don't... and no one else earns that either. http://www.producersweb.com/r/pwebmc/d/contentFocus/?pcID=54c629b5cc21ececa0dc8024daf8909e I respect Ric Edelman because he has built a thriving RIA with BILLIONS of AUM. He found his BUSINESS MODEL and has stuck with it. So have the rest of us. Comparing annuities to "index funds" may not be an appropriate comparison as index funds have the risk of principal loss, where fixed annuities do not. (Variable annuities do, and should have the underlying investments be suitable for the risk tolerance determined.) ProducersWeb - Annuities - In search of suitability Oh, guess what? Social security IS an annuity! And it is "suitable" for everyone. Only annuities can do what they do - guarantee a lifetime income that you cannot outlive or outspend... as long as it is structured properly. Drifting, I'm going to say it: you're a troll. You're bitter and you have found an audience to blame and vent about your own problems. I suggest that you never engage in a relationship with any financial professional again... and just leave this forum for the licensed professionals.

Great points. Once someone quotes Clark Howard, Susie Ormon or Dave Ramsey you have to scratch your head and wonder where they're coming from.