Should have said "mispriced" in case there was any confussion
Another Major LTC Player Making Sweeping Changes
- Thread starter bluemarlin08
- Start date
-
- Tags
- long term care
Should have said "mispriced" in case there was any confussion
It didn't necessarily mis-price, either. It removed discounts. Which will create more profit. Genworth long term care insurance unit is very profitable at it's current discounted pricing.
This is more about rating agencies and Genworth's mortgage insurance unit.
These decisions by Genworth towards its LTCi unit relate to bigger picture issues all revolving around its mortgage insurance unit; as in not being downgraded to A-, having bonds classified as junk.
Last edited:
ok....never tried adding a picture/file before, I hope this works. Here is a reccomendation I made a few months back where I showed multiple companies...including Genworth. Husband and wife, both in good health in their early 50's.
I just added the exta column in green to show what a 60% increase would be for a healthy married couple. (60% is the number I have heard thrown around for healthy married couple. I haven't done the math to make sure that is accuarte).
Image:
Image:
Image:
Image:
Edit**** for clarification in case someone missed it: I just added the green column today for illustrative purposes of this thread. End edit****
They ended up taking the NML increasing premium plan and when they have their home paid off in about 4 years, they are going to switch to the level premium plan.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
You don't think Genworth along with just about every company didn't mis-price in the past? I think they all did. The discounts to me are the same as not pricing it correctly.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
wouldn't the "contract price" be part of the "contract"??? Haven't they announced big pricing changes?
I just added the exta column in green to show what a 60% increase would be for a healthy married couple. (60% is the number I have heard thrown around for healthy married couple. I haven't done the math to make sure that is accuarte).
Image:
Image:
Image:
Image:
Edit**** for clarification in case someone missed it: I just added the green column today for illustrative purposes of this thread. End edit****
They ended up taking the NML increasing premium plan and when they have their home paid off in about 4 years, they are going to switch to the level premium plan.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
You don't think Genworth along with just about every company didn't mis-price in the past? I think they all did. The discounts to me are the same as not pricing it correctly.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
wouldn't the "contract price" be part of the "contract"??? Haven't they announced big pricing changes?
Last edited:
No, reducing discounts or tightening underwriting is not changing the contract. Nor is it a rate increase.
Your numbers above for a couple in their early 50's may not be accurate: but I am at the pool now, so I can not confirm. If the couple is healthy, Omaha and Transamerica will most likely offer discounts for being in good health and will be a lot less premium than Northwestern. Surely more than the $200 you illustrate.
Although this excerpt from my website is based upon a 3 year benefit period, it is accurate and relative.
Purely from a pricing perspective in many of the 50 States Genworth's current Privileged Choice Flex long term care insurance rates are significantly beneath rates of its competitors, especially for couples applying together.
For example, consider a healthy 60 year old couple residing in Michigan. Today, the 60 year old couple could consider policy benefits of $150.00/day, 3 year benefit periods, 5% compound inflation protection, and a 90 day waiting period.
Current rates in Michigan for this 60 year old couple would be the following:
Genworth Privileged Choice Flex $2777/year*
Transamerica Trans Care II $3993/year
Mutual of Omaha Mutual Care Plus $4046/year
Mass Mutual Signature Care $4336/year
John Hancock Custom Care III $5167/year
Northwestern Mutual Quiet Care $5581/year
State Farm $5952/year
New York Life, $6318/year
Once*the discount*changes are in effect, my calculations indicate the new Genworth Privileged Choice Flex premium for the same benefits will be $4443/year.**While*the new pricing will be in line*compared with the marketplace, it is apparent that for many buyers considering long term care insurance today the rates available for a limited time within Privileged Choice Flex today are a very*good*value.
Your numbers above for a couple in their early 50's may not be accurate: but I am at the pool now, so I can not confirm. If the couple is healthy, Omaha and Transamerica will most likely offer discounts for being in good health and will be a lot less premium than Northwestern. Surely more than the $200 you illustrate.
Although this excerpt from my website is based upon a 3 year benefit period, it is accurate and relative.
Purely from a pricing perspective in many of the 50 States Genworth's current Privileged Choice Flex long term care insurance rates are significantly beneath rates of its competitors, especially for couples applying together.
For example, consider a healthy 60 year old couple residing in Michigan. Today, the 60 year old couple could consider policy benefits of $150.00/day, 3 year benefit periods, 5% compound inflation protection, and a 90 day waiting period.
Current rates in Michigan for this 60 year old couple would be the following:
Genworth Privileged Choice Flex $2777/year*
Transamerica Trans Care II $3993/year
Mutual of Omaha Mutual Care Plus $4046/year
Mass Mutual Signature Care $4336/year
John Hancock Custom Care III $5167/year
Northwestern Mutual Quiet Care $5581/year
State Farm $5952/year
New York Life, $6318/year
Once*the discount*changes are in effect, my calculations indicate the new Genworth Privileged Choice Flex premium for the same benefits will be $4443/year.**While*the new pricing will be in line*compared with the marketplace, it is apparent that for many buyers considering long term care insurance today the rates available for a limited time within Privileged Choice Flex today are a very*good*value.
Last edited:
Semantics....I wasn't speaking about the benefit provided...other than the benefit period (elimination of lifetime benefit plan) and the contract price. To me and to most people this means the contract has changed. But for arguments sake, I will agree with you that the contract is the same and the pricing is being overhauled.
I think Genworth has a great contract, I think Met Life had a great contract, I think Northwestern Mutual has a great contract. There are features about each of the before mentioned that are superior to the others. You are more often comfortable with Genworth, I am more often comfortable with Northwestern. We both have good reasons why we believe the way we do.
This thread is specifically about Genworth however. There are many people that have had concerns over Genworth's stability at the current pricing. Genworth has made some big changes in their pricing...as you say it brings them more in line with everyone elses pricing. I am now even less inclined to reccomend Genworth since the one big edge they had in my opinion was price.
I still like their zero day elimination...but to me, that is a very small factor since I build in cash reserves for emergencies or for people in retirement I believe that 2 to 4 years of income needs above their fixed income (SS/Pension) they recieve should be held aside in cash or cash equivilents.
Unlicensed/uncertified caregivers definately gives flexability, but you still can't have family provide this unless they are licensed. If you have the right amount of benefit in place for a licensed and certified caregiver...again, this is taken care of.
- 10,806
I would guess that Mass is going to emerge as a larger and larger presence in the LTCI world over the coming years. Their strong ratings combined with the competitive premium will be a big selling point.
Last edited:
Agreed! The mutuals are going to come out ahead in the LTC game in my opinion...li will let you know for sure in another 20 - 30 years though.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
I will have to go back and look at which Met contract it was. I had some Indian clients and they plan on reting back in India one day. Met's policy will pay a claim there. It was a nice feature to have a policy that will pay overseas.
Can you shorten this thread a little and just tell me what you don't like about the policy?
Last edited:
ok....never tried adding a picture/file before, I hope this works. Here is a reccomendation I made a few months back where I showed multiple companies...including Genworth. Husband and wife, both in good health in their early 50's.
I just added the exta column in green to show what a 60% increase would be for a healthy married couple. (60% is the number I have heard thrown around for healthy married couple. I haven't done the math to make sure that is accuarte).
Image:
Image:
Image:
Image:
They ended up taking the NML increasing premium plan and when they have their home paid off in about 4 years, they are going to switch to the level premium plan.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
You don't think Genworth along with just about every company didn't mis-price in the past? I think they all did. The discounts to me are the same as not pricing it correctly.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
wouldn't the "contract price" be part of the "contract"??? Haven't they announced big pricing changes?
OMG.
I'm sure that spreadsheet is "compliance approved"!
Please let us know what your compliance manager says after you submit it for approval!
Have you any idea how much trouble that can get you in with EVERY LTC insurer listed on that spreadsheet?
Last point and I'll shut up:
Where do you have the gall to show a 60% premium increase (FROM YEAR ONE) considering that:
Genworth has NEVER had a 60% increase on any of their LTCi policyholders
The highest premium increase any Genworth policyholder has ever had (OVER THE PAST 38 YEARS) is only 30%--and that affected about half of their policyholders.
About a quarter of Genworth's policyholders have NEVER had a premium increase.
About a quarter of their policyholders have had only a 12% premium increase.
AND their current policies are already priced SIGNIFICANTLY HIGHER than the policies on which they requested the premium increases.
I suggest you remove that spreadsheet before you start getting a letters from attorneys representing every insurance company on that spreadsheet.
Last edited:
Maybe not, unless distribution channels change.
