Colorado Bankers (CB Life)...

[scagnt83]

Would anyone care to recommend how to roll these monthly interest payments into a tax deferred retirement account …please

If you mean an IRA, then you can simply just transfer the money to the IRA account as contributions. But you would be limited to $6,500 (+ $1k if over 50), that is per individual so your spouse gets $7500 too.

If you mean a Deferred Annuity, then you can simply take out a flexible premium deferred annuity and make monthly payments into it. Or let it accumulate over the year in a bank account and then transfer the whole amount over (since many annuities no longer allow monthly payments into them).

Most Deferred Annuities have a minimum of $5k or $10k to open it.

 

[Newby]

When agents say "top-rated" that doesn't mean anything. That is a sales pitch.
Your response has to be, as rated by who? BBB? Good Housekeeping seal of approval? AM Best? Comdex? The department of Insurance? The agent's mother? lol
A a consumer of ANY product you have to be able to separate facts from fluff. Top rated is fluff.
If an agent says this insurance company has a Comdex rating of 97 and shows you the proof, that is a fact. If he says it has an AM Best rating of A++ that is a fact that can be verified. Those ratings might not mean too much since most failed companies were rated A or better by AM Best within weeks of failing. But at least he was giving factual information.

But if he says non-sense like top-rated that means absolutely nothing. Top-rated by who and where do I verify that?

 

[scagnt83]

If an agent says this insurance company has a Comdex rating of 97 and shows you the proof, that is a fact. If he says it has an AM Best rating of A++ that is a fact that can be verified. Those ratings might not mean too much since most failed companies were rated A or better by AM Best within weeks of failing. But at least he was giving factual information.

But if he says non-sense like top-rated that means absolutely nothing. Top-rated by who and where do I verify that?

This x1000.

Everything an agent tells you can be verified by facts if its true.

If its top rated, I can show you the rating, along with the definition of the rating, along with ratings of peers, to verify.

If its a top interest rate, I can show you the rate grid to verify.

If its the lowest cost option, I can show you a comparison to verify.

If its maxed out to the MEC limit, I can show you the 7pay premium listed in the illustration to verify.

Everything that is truthful is written down somewhere, and that can be given to the consumer to verify the veracity of a statement.

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Blind trust with no questions is a recipe for disaster for a consumer... in any situation, but especially in the financial world.

A good advisor wants clients to ask questions. Even if its to provide verification of a statement, an honest advisor does not take offense to that question.

 

[Stephen Round]

What was CBLife's actual rating in the summer and fall of 2017. Does anyone have that information?

 

[scagnt83]

What was CBLife's actual rating in the summer and fall of 2017. Does anyone have that information?

B++ with AM Best. So perhaps 40% percentile.

C with Weiss.

They did not retain a rating from the other 3 agencies. Often a red flag for an insurer with a risky balance sheet.

There also is no Comdex Score because it requires at least 3 ratings from approved rating agencies. (which is a percentile based composite rating)

 

[scagnt83]

What was CBLife's actual rating in the summer and fall of 2017. Does anyone have that information?

Here is a link for verification:
https://www.wholehan.com/assets/uploads/2019/04/Comdex-financial_ratings.pdf

 

[Stephen Round]

Thank you so much for that information, Scagnt83. That shines a different light on this whole thing for me. Back in 2017 when we purchased this annuity with our retirement money, the agent/rep/salesman for Citizens Bank Rhode Island told my wife and me that CBLife had "the highest ratings". He has mentioned this more than once since 2019 implying that Citizens had no way of knowing that this "highly rated" company could go bad. Of course, he also said that the $$$ was insured "just like" the FDIC covered the bank's other deposits - up to $250,000 per depositor.

And, most importantly to us, that we could get full-access to our funds in an emergency. In 2019 that emergency happened and we tried to pull our money out. We have been trying ever since...

 

[scagnt83]

Thank you so much for that information, Scagnt83. That shines a different light on this whole thing for me. Back in 2017 when we purchased this annuity with our retirement money, the agent/rep/salesman for Citizens Bank Rhode Island told my wife and me that CBLife had "the highest ratings". He has mentioned this more than once since 2019 implying that Citizens had no way of knowing that this "highly rated" company could go bad. Of course, he also said that the $$$ was insured "just like" the FDIC covered the bank's other deposits - up to $250,000 per depositor.

And, most importantly to us, that we could get full-access to our funds in an emergency. In 2019 that emergency happened and we tried to pull our money out. We have been trying ever since...

You are welcome. Again, sorry to hear this happened to you. Its the worst kind of story within our industry for an advisor to hear about.

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Was any of this written down by him in email or print at any time?

Even now, can you get him to say that in an email? It would give you a real leg to stand on legally in a claim against the agents E&O insurance. (professional liability insurance)


What were the circumstances of the purchase? Did they solicit you?

Was this part of a "retirement plan" they created for you?

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The "full access to funds in an emergency" was a half lie.

* Assuming the carrier is still solvent *, you had full access only for a terminal illness or a permanent LTC impairment.

And that is only for the owner of the policy... which is usually just 1 spouse.

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A tip for future dealings:
Ask the financial person to send you an email summarizing what they told you. If they leave a lot of the verbal "selling points" out of the email (possible red flag) ... reply with direct questions about those and get direct answers on paper.

 

[scagnt83]

Thank you so much for that information, Scagnt83. That shines a different light on this whole thing for me. Back in 2017 when we purchased this annuity with our retirement money, the agent/rep/salesman for Citizens Bank Rhode Island told my wife and me that CBLife had "the highest ratings". He has mentioned this more than once since 2019 implying that Citizens had no way of knowing that this "highly rated" company could go bad. Of course, he also said that the $$$ was insured "just like" the FDIC covered the bank's other deposits - up to $250,000 per depositor.

And, most importantly to us, that we could get full-access to our funds in an emergency. In 2019 that emergency happened and we tried to pull our money out. We have been trying ever since...

Another issue here, is that they used AM Best for the rating... carriers who only hire AM Best often have low financial ratings... because AM Best uses a different scale and criteria which allows them to have a higher letter grade vs. other rating agencies.

This is an area that is completely confusing for many agents, much less consumers.

An "A" with AM Best is actually equal to a BBB with Fitch or S&P.

If you start looking at the link I posted, you will see lots of A ratings with AMBest when the other agencies rate them on a B level.

AMBest only uses 13 possible rating levels, others use around 19.

That doesnt mean AMBest is "inaccurate"... but it does mean a B++ with AM Best (top B rating) is not equal to a BBB with S&P or Fitch (their top B rating).

As a consumer, its impossible for you to know that without tons of research, or without having your advisor tell you that. Unfortunately, most agents dont even know there is a big difference between the 3 major agencies.

AMBest defines a B++ rating as "a good ability to meet ongoing obligations".
The next level up is "excellent ability to meet ongoing obligations".
Top level is "superior ability to meet ongoing obligations".

Do you want a surgeon with a "good ability" or a "superior ability"?? Id guess you at least want them to have an "excellent ability" if your life is at risk... and running out of money in retirement is indeed a risk to your life.

https://www.ambest.com/ratings/guid...9.1948665795.1679062962-1987348100.1679062962

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But take a look at the other rating they had at the time from Weiss:
C rated

Weiss defines a C rating as "This insurance company offers fair financial security and is currently stable. But during an economic downturn or other financial pressures, we feel it may encounter difficulties in maintaining its financial stability."

https://weissratings.com/en/products/insurance-ratings

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So according to the other rating it had at the time, it was far from a top rated carrier. It was an "at risk" carrier by their standards.

 

[scagnt83]

https://www.fitchratings.com/resear...strength-ratings-are-created-equal-12-07-2016