Coming Revolution in Health Insurance

[Crabcake Johnny]

And what do the states need to do to enforce the car insurance mandate? Jail time. Anything less then being thrown in prison as punishment for driving without insurance and you'll see around 60% without car insurance more than happy to pay any "state tax fine."

In MD if you're caught driving without insurance there's no ticket to pay. It's a must appear punishable by $1,000 or 1 year in jail. Are we prepared to be that tough for health insurance?

Does anyone thing it's an outrage that someone can be sentenced to jail for driving without insurance?

You can mandate that everyone has health insurance but you'll never be able to enforce it without extremely stiff penalties.

 

[Winter_123]

And what do the states need to do to enforce the car insurance mandate? Jail time. Anything less then being thrown in prison as punishment for driving without insurance and you'll see around 60% without car insurance more than happy to pay any "state tax fine."

In MD if you're caught driving without insurance there's no ticket to pay. It's a must appear punishable by $1,000 or 1 year in jail. Are we prepared to be that tough for health insurance?

Does anyone thing it's an outrage that someone can be sentenced to jail for driving without insurance?

You can mandate that everyone has health insurance but you'll never be able to enforce it without extremely stiff penalties.

Other things that will be interesting to watch is when/if everyone is required to have coverage there will not be enough providers to go around in many areas. So people will rightfully complain, "you made me get coverage, now I can't find a doctor who will see me. What am I getting for my money"? Are we having fun yet?

 

[somarco]

not be enough providers to go around

Already an issue.

State Watch | Massachusetts Health Insurance Law Highlighting Shortage of Doctors in State - Kaisernetwork.org

about 1,600 people currently are on the facility's waiting list and patients must wait an average of four months to be seen.

 

[SportsNut]

Does anyone thing it's an outrage that someone can be sentenced to jail for driving without insurance?

No, actually I don't think it's an outrage... if that same person runs into your 25K auto with no insurance, isn't that as severe an offense as the person who deliberately steals something from you? An act of ommission or negligence is never an excuse, as we all learned early on.

I was hit by an uninsured driver a couple of years ago, the driver fled from the scene. Within 30 mins the auto was called in as "stolen" by its owner. They know how to play the game... that way it is not them behind the wheel. I went with Police to the owner of the auto's home to identify the person as the driver... amazing how that all unfolded. Bottom line is it cost me the deductible on the comprehensive in order to get my vehicle repaired... Is that the same as that person holding a weapon on me and lifting 1K out of my pocket...? Not sure, but the result was the same. Why isn't that person held accountable for the same punishment...? I think it is only right.

Are we willing to do the same for those w/o health ins...? not sure, but why not. If that is the law, then it should be the law, regardless. We have come to a point where adults must be treated like children, or animals really, as many are not trustworthy or capable of doing what they are supposed to do, it seems. If you cannot follow the rules of society, then consequences need to exist... if it is "health ins jail", then so be it.

 

[Winter_123]

Already an issue.

State Watch | Massachusetts Health Insurance Law Highlighting Shortage of Doctors in State - Kaisernetwork.org

It is hard to tell what is considered to be a problem versus what is the goal. All the libs want to emulate the National Health Service in Britain or Canada where waiting four months or more is the norm.

 

[SportsNut]

It is hard to tell what is considered to be a problem versus what is the goal. All the libs want to emulate the National Health Service in Britain or Canada where waiting four months or more is the norm.

Recently heard some statistic (and I can't recite the exact condition or statement here, so maybe I shouldn't even bring it up... but no chance of that). The stat was about colon cancer and the lifespan following diagnosis, comparing US vs. Canadian citizens. The lifespan was over 1 yr shorter for Canadians... reason being was due to "X" drug (forget the name of it) and the Canadian gov't hasn't approved the drug because it would be too costly to their health care system if they did.

So how do those that favor the gov't running the healthcare system square this info, if and when free enterprise goes out of the equation, and the gov't totally determines what you get, and that is it. No other alternative unless you are wealthy and can be treated in a US healthcare system... I wonder what Canadians think about this option going away...?

Interesting debate for sure.

 

[djs]

Without doing the math, my instinct is that health insurance costs could actually be reduced by requiring EVERYONE to have it. You just provide subsidy to those who can't afford it.

Mandates don't reduce health cost one bit. All they do is spread the high bills over more people.

Just where do the subsidies come from? Oh yeah, taxpayers.

Dan

 

[somarco]

JT here comes a shameless plug. We have posted so much at InsureBlog on the Canadian & British system you can probably find information there.

Go to the blog and enter Canadian in the upper left search box. Here are the results.

The British search works the same, but you can save keystrokes by entering MVNHS (for most vaunted national health service). Results here.

Mandates don't reduce health cost one bit. All they do is spread the high bills over more people.

Just where do the subsidies come from? Oh yeah, taxpayers.

Amazing how many people miss that . . .

 

[OHInsAGNT]

As states started mandating auto insurance rates did not drop. Why should it be any different with health insurance?

Your point is valid in the context of the free-rider uninsured persons. That is assuming rates have not declined in Auto insurance. As a percentage of household income, they have shrank steadily in Ohio. Maybe not in actual dollars, but in real dollars yes. I'm not sure the causation.

However, you're overlooking the economic relationship I posed in the second half of the argument. Health insurance, or the lack of, creates a vendee/vendor fracture.

Since it is a business, the medical care operators can increase their rates to make up for losses for non-insured consumers. Insurance companies thereby compensate with higher rates.

In auto insurance, a claimant to a non-insured has no ability to just charge someone else's insurance company more in a later accident to make up the difference. They are stuck with the hardship.
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Does anyone thing it's an outrage that someone can be sentenced to jail for driving without insurance?

If it's a first offense and you are shown not to be negligent (ie accidentally lapsed in the last couple weeks) no jail time.

If you are willfully and knowingly driving without insurance for months, it should be mandatory jail time. You are a ticking time bomb waiting to destroy someone's life.

Don't even ask about DUI. I'd say 1 year mandatory sentence first offense.

It's easy not to do it. Just don't.

I don't understand why people don't take auto laws seriously. More physical and economic harm is caused by automobiles than just about anything in the country. And, it's so unavoidable.
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No, actually I don't think it's an outrage... if that same person runs into your 25K auto with no insurance, isn't that as severe an offense as the person who deliberately steals something from you? An act of ommission or negligence is never an excuse, as we all learned early on.

I was hit by an uninsured driver a couple of years ago, the driver fled from the scene. Within 30 mins the auto was called in as "stolen" by its owner. They know how to play the game... that way it is not them behind the wheel. I went with Police to the owner of the auto's home to identify the person as the driver... amazing how that all unfolded. Bottom line is it cost me the deductible on the comprehensive in order to get my vehicle repaired... Is that the same as that person holding a weapon on me and lifting 1K out of my pocket...? Not sure, but the result was the same. Why isn't that person held accountable for the same punishment...? I think it is only right.

Are we willing to do the same for those w/o health ins...? not sure, but why not. If that is the law, then it should be the law, regardless. We have come to a point where adults must be treated like children, or animals really, as many are not trustworthy or capable of doing what they are supposed to do, it seems. If you cannot follow the rules of society, then consequences need to exist... if it is "health ins jail", then so be it.

Exactly what I'm talking about SportsNut. Just think, what if this scofflaw had disabled you. Who is supposed to pick up that ticket. It is an inexcuseable criminal act.
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Amazing how many people miss that . . .

I didn't miss it. I worked for one of the major political committees on Capitol Hill in D.C. My assumption now is that something will be spent. I'd rather it be spent on a mostly private solution that at least has some salient economic backing.

One way or another, we're paying for this thing. I think subsidies post an income test are better than just handing out a government insurance program.

 

[somarco]

rates have not declined in Auto insurance. As a percentage of household income,

That's a red herring.

Auto rates did not decline in GA when we went to no-fault, they went up. They did not decline when coverage became mandatory, they went up.

Even if you mandate health insurance coverage for everyone you will not achieve 100%, nor will rates decline.

But here is an interesting side note. Foreign nationals entering this country on a student visa or work visa must have proof of insurance. But it is OK for deadbeat citizens and illegal aliens to go without health insurance.

Go figure.

you're overlooking the economic relationship I posed in the second half of the argument. Health insurance, or the lack of, creates a vendee/vendor fracture.

Don't think I have overlooked a thing.

I have looked at too many situations where mandated participation drives up rates, not the other way around.

I worked for one of the major political committees on Capitol Hill in D.C.

Well I am really happy for you. But I have yet to find more than a handful of politicians who know a damn thing about running anything other than their mouth. And now we have an *** in the White House that is sucking up to terrorist groups and telling the CIA we must be nice to prisoners.