- 10,275
Sman...I sent you a PM with a few ideas. Nothing major. Site looks good.
Dateline Undercover on right now
- Thread starter MAPDJim
- Start date
Perfect. If that is all you did, you'd be doing good work.
I do think you are glossing over the power of an indexed annuity and just assuming they are bad. They aren't in any way shape or form. About 1/2 of my retirement money is indexed annuities. Am I hitting homeruns? Nope, but my mutual funds are gradually shrinking it seems while my annuities stay level or go up every year.
Ok, you are today's bait.
When you make a statement be prepared to offer your solution. EIA's were around when CD's were paying a pittance. The FIA's had returns that were higher than those CD's.
Nov 2002
6-month CD yield: 1.35%, down from 1.50% last week
1-year CD yield: 1.54%, down from 1.68% last week
5-year CD yield: 3.30%, down from 3.39% las
CD's rates aren't that great in 2008.
I've posted this question on other forums and it seems that the down side risk throws people. What would you do with a senior that still wants to make more than a CD but have no market risk, by-passes probate, can grow tax deferred, and (depending on the State) is arms length from creditors and attorny's?
"The former Enron CEO whose wife said that they are guaranteed about $400,000 a year in income starting in 2007. Unlike the Lays' other assets, which are threatened by lawsuits, Texas state law puts annuities out of reach of creditors and plaintiffs' lawyers."
Would anyone like to bet that there are seniors with Income Mutual Funds that are not thrilled at the moment.
Maybe some GO bonds; Revenue bonds; Double Barrel bonds; some Bills?
>>>>>Note credit ratings are not foolproof. Enron had an investment-grade rating right up until it declared bankruptcy and WorldCom up to 3 months before filing for bankruptcy>>>>>>>
For the 15 years I had my Series 7 shingle out, the general securities people thought stocks were the only way. When I was an RIA my RIA brethren all thought the fee only was the best. So when people talk about the best option or something should never be used I always like to hear the views on the best option.
I've said this before, I am not against disclosure but people can and do make their own decisions based on personal decisions. Not every bit of life's risk can be disclosed. You go to your doctor for an ear ache and he prescribes an antibiotic. Does you doctor sit and tell you all that can go wrong with that antibiotic? Does your pharmacist explain that this antibiotic could kill you (I have experience on that one)? No they give you a paper with your drugs. Read it if you are concerned.
When you make a statement be prepared to offer your solution. EIA's were around when CD's were paying a pittance. The FIA's had returns that were higher than those CD's.
Nov 2002
6-month CD yield: 1.35%, down from 1.50% last week
1-year CD yield: 1.54%, down from 1.68% last week
5-year CD yield: 3.30%, down from 3.39% las
CD's rates aren't that great in 2008.
I've posted this question on other forums and it seems that the down side risk throws people. What would you do with a senior that still wants to make more than a CD but have no market risk, by-passes probate, can grow tax deferred, and (depending on the State) is arms length from creditors and attorny's?
"The former Enron CEO whose wife said that they are guaranteed about $400,000 a year in income starting in 2007. Unlike the Lays' other assets, which are threatened by lawsuits, Texas state law puts annuities out of reach of creditors and plaintiffs' lawyers."
Would anyone like to bet that there are seniors with Income Mutual Funds that are not thrilled at the moment.
Maybe some GO bonds; Revenue bonds; Double Barrel bonds; some Bills?
>>>>>Note credit ratings are not foolproof. Enron had an investment-grade rating right up until it declared bankruptcy and WorldCom up to 3 months before filing for bankruptcy>>>>>>>
For the 15 years I had my Series 7 shingle out, the general securities people thought stocks were the only way. When I was an RIA my RIA brethren all thought the fee only was the best. So when people talk about the best option or something should never be used I always like to hear the views on the best option.
I've said this before, I am not against disclosure but people can and do make their own decisions based on personal decisions. Not every bit of life's risk can be disclosed. You go to your doctor for an ear ache and he prescribes an antibiotic. Does you doctor sit and tell you all that can go wrong with that antibiotic? Does your pharmacist explain that this antibiotic could kill you (I have experience on that one)? No they give you a paper with your drugs. Read it if you are concerned.
Ok....I do to the tune of around $80,000. One of them is with LBL and I've had it since the mid 1990's. Seven year surrender and then I have the choice to roll it, which I did.
Fifteen years Series7 and 2 years RIA I think just maybe I have a bit of an understanding about other investments. Ya think!
You say "Different kinds of CD's?" A CD is a time deposit debt insturment and I am not sure what you are trying to say.
Certificates of Deposit: Tips for Investors
From the SEC:
"Here's how CDs work: When you purchase a CD, you invest a fixed sum of money for fixed period of time – six months, one year, five years, or more – and, in exchange, the issuing bank pays you interest, typically at regular intervals. When you cash in or redeem your CD, you receive the money you originally invested plus any accrued interest. But if you redeem your CD before it matures, you may have to pay an "early withdrawal" penalty or forfeit a portion of the interest you earned.
Research Any Penalties for Early Withdrawal – Deposit brokers often tout the fact that their CDs have no penalty for early withdrawal. While technically true, these claims can be misleading. Be sure to find out how much you'll have to pay if you cash in your CD before maturity and whether you risk losing any portion of your principal. If you are the sole owner of a brokered CD, you may be able to pay an early withdrawal penalty to the bank that issued the CD to get your money back. But if you share the CD with other customers, your broker will have to find a buyer for your portion. If interest rates have fallen since you purchased your CD and the bank hasn't called it, your broker may be able to sell your portion for a profit. But if interest rates have risen, there may be less demand for your lower-yielding CD. That means you would have to sell the CD at a discount and lose some of your original deposit –despite no "penalty" for early withdrawal."
Fifteen years Series7 and 2 years RIA I think just maybe I have a bit of an understanding about other investments. Ya think!
You say "Different kinds of CD's?" A CD is a time deposit debt insturment and I am not sure what you are trying to say.
Certificates of Deposit: Tips for Investors
From the SEC:
"Here's how CDs work: When you purchase a CD, you invest a fixed sum of money for fixed period of time – six months, one year, five years, or more – and, in exchange, the issuing bank pays you interest, typically at regular intervals. When you cash in or redeem your CD, you receive the money you originally invested plus any accrued interest. But if you redeem your CD before it matures, you may have to pay an "early withdrawal" penalty or forfeit a portion of the interest you earned.
Research Any Penalties for Early Withdrawal – Deposit brokers often tout the fact that their CDs have no penalty for early withdrawal. While technically true, these claims can be misleading. Be sure to find out how much you'll have to pay if you cash in your CD before maturity and whether you risk losing any portion of your principal. If you are the sole owner of a brokered CD, you may be able to pay an early withdrawal penalty to the bank that issued the CD to get your money back. But if you share the CD with other customers, your broker will have to find a buyer for your portion. If interest rates have fallen since you purchased your CD and the bank hasn't called it, your broker may be able to sell your portion for a profit. But if interest rates have risen, there may be less demand for your lower-yielding CD. That means you would have to sell the CD at a discount and lose some of your original deposit –despite no "penalty" for early withdrawal."
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John,
Are you serious with that statement? You do realize an annuity isn't right for every person's situation don't you? Just because someone may sell one to the person approaching retirement who wants some security and guaranteed income doesn't mean you sell one to the 35 year old who just changed jobs and wants to roll his 401k. The money has different goals.
With that mindset, you should own several different types of Assurant and Golden Rule plans since you sell them. If you own a HDHP then you shouldn't be selling any copay plans. Or, if you own a copay plan, you shouldn't be selling any HDHP plans. And you should never help someone enroll in your state's high risk pool since you're not in it.
I'm not trying to get into a pissing contest with you, but sometimes you say some of the craziest things. To claim that a person shouldn't sell an annuity unless they own one is just not a very logical statement. I am an equities guy. I think over the long haul, a person will always do better in the market than in any fixed type instrument (fixed annuity, index annuity, CD, etc.). So since I invest in the market, I should only sell mutual funds to my clients? What if they are risk averse and don't want to invest in the market? What if they are now getting 2.50% on a CD that they are depending on for income? They've now seen their income drop in half over the last year or so. Since I don't currently own an annuity I shouldn't give them the option for a portion of their assets? Maybe show them a way to get a guaranteed income that will last a lifetime?
Maybe I'll try that on my next appointment. Sorry Mr. & Mrs. Jones, I know you like the benefits I've just gone over with you on this 3 year annuity with a 4.70% rate guarantee, but John Petrowski says that since I don't own one, I shouldn't sell it to you.
- 14,808
Wrong analogy. I sell and have health insurance. If a life agent is touting UL I'd expect them to have UL - not term. If an agent is recommending an annuity I'd want to know how theirs has been performing.
It doesn't mean you need to have the same annuity you're recommending since, like you said, it depends on the client.
I can have Assurant and tout GR due to a wide variety of reasons - underwriting being on of them. But again, I sell and have health insurance.
Would you like it if your stock broker didn't own a single stock (was invested in other instruments) yet went on about how great stocks were?
Fair enough if you don't have an one - but as a client I'd want to know why.
It doesn't mean you need to have the same annuity you're recommending since, like you said, it depends on the client.
I can have Assurant and tout GR due to a wide variety of reasons - underwriting being on of them. But again, I sell and have health insurance.
Would you like it if your stock broker didn't own a single stock (was invested in other instruments) yet went on about how great stocks were?
Fair enough if you don't have an one - but as a client I'd want to know why.
I figured you'd say that about the health insurance. But I still stand by it. Many advisers who recommend annuities as a part of someone's portfolio have investments themselves. However, at their current age and situation an annuity may not be appropriate.
Just as you said you can have Assurant and tout GR due to a wide variety of reasons because you have health insurance, an adviser can have investments that aren't annuities and tout annuities for a wide variety of reasons. If the product fits the goal of the money, you use that product. The goal of a 35 or 40 year old is to accumulate assets for retirement. The goal for the person nearing retirement is, in part, to make sure they don't run out of money. Sometimes that means different investment vehicles. Even annuities. As a person still accumulating for retirement, an annuity isn't a fit for me. But it may be some day. As a matter of fact, if the guarantee income features are around when I get there, I will likely use an annuity for a portion of my portfolio.
You come on here with a holier than thou attitude and can't seem to remove the scales from your eyes to see a differing view point that has merit. And you're entitled to that. Just as I am entitled to believe that an adviser can ethically advise someone to invest in any product as long as it meets that persons goals and needs.
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SO "health insurance" is "health insurance" but "life insurance" is not "life insurance"
Now I get it.
- 14,808
Whatever. My feelings will never change - unless you're a licensed and trained financial advisor you have no business handling anyone's money - especially seniors. If you are professional training and licensed then go have at it.
- 11,280
Yes, just as you cannot see the light on the Wal Mart issue. I am starting to see a trend.
