Dateline Undercover on right now

[SportsNut]

never being able to admit you're wrong is personality flaw that I can't help.

I think that is a trait of a perfectionist, in large part.

From Wikipedia

Perfectionism, in psychology, is a belief that perfection can and should be attained. In its pathological form, it is a belief that anything less than perfect is unacceptable. At pathological levels, this is considered an unhealthy belief.

 

[sman]

I sleep at night knowing I'm very well trained on the products I offer and the products my prospect currently has. If you feel you're well trained on the products you offer and the products they current have then it's all good isn't it.

I didn't used to be well trained but thought I was. When presented with evidence....from a message board....that I was indeed not well trained I quit and restructured what I was doing.

If I were you, I'd look inward the same way I did back in 2003. Don't be too set in your mentality. You're allowed to be wrong. In fact, never being able to admit you're wrong is personality flaw that I can't help.

John,

You still didn't answer the questions. You initially stated that you shouldn't sell an annuity unless you owned one. Now you're saying anyone trained and an "expert" can sell one.

I don't need to look inward. I already know I'm qualified. I was just pointing out the fact that your statement may have been a little off the handle to start with.

Now I'll give your words back to you, "Don't be too set in your mentality, you're allowed to be wrong"(kind of funny coming from someone who said they won't change their mind). You're a big boy, you can admit that maybe you might have been a little irrational in your first statement (though I doubt you will). I completely agree with your other statement, anyone selling a product should be trained. But I can't agree that you must own what you sell. I do believe that one must BELIEVE in what they sell and they must be able to demonstrate that it satisfies the clients needs without harming the client. And I will definitely agree that there are way too many agents selling stuff they aren't trained to do. So kudos to you for attempting to help in the health insurance field.

 

[Charpress]

I sell annuities and I own annuities. Do I have to own one to sell one? No. Do I know a good investment that fits my situation when I see one? Yes.

Speaking of which, how does this fixed annuity compare to a CD?

3 year fixed, 4.25% return.

You can leave interest to accumulate tax deferred, or you can have interest sent to you monthly, annually, semi-annually.

Prepayment penalty for taking out original investment: 8% first year, then 7%, 6%, 0%.

Liquid and good for everyone? No. Simple to understand and make a decision? Yes.

 

[Crabcake Johnny]

John,

You still didn't answer the questions. You initially stated that you shouldn't sell an annuity unless you owned one. Now you're saying anyone trained and an "expert" can sell one.

I don't need to look inward. I already know I'm qualified. I was just pointing out the fact that your statement may have been a little off the handle to start with.

Now I'll give your words back to you, "Don't be too set in your mentality, you're allowed to be wrong"(kind of funny coming from someone who said they won't change their mind). You're a big boy, you can admit that maybe you might have been a little irrational in your first statement (though I doubt you will). I completely agree with your other statement, anyone selling a product should be trained. But I can't agree that you must own what you sell. I do believe that one must BELIEVE in what they sell and they must be able to demonstrate that it satisfies the clients needs without harming the client. And I will definitely agree that there are way too many agents selling stuff they aren't trained to do. So kudos to you for attempting to help in the health insurance field.

Even Walmart, a muti-billion dollar company, reversed their action and admitted they were wrong; then went on to say they are restructuring their policy. If they can't look at another point of view and change their actions, so can you.

And yes, you should own an annuity and be a trained and licensed financial planner to sell annuities.

I also think the best match for a senior is a senior. That's not to say that younger agents don't know their stuff - they do. However, when I reach retirement age I think I'll want someone advising me who can more relate to my situation.

And by the way - don't equate health insurance to dealing with money that a senior has literally worked their whole life for - and now is trusting to some commission hungry broke agent waiting for his next check to he can gas up.

Now - before I get blasted for that one, it's also true that some unethical stock broker could soak them just as well as an agent.

That's why my advise for any senior taking financial advise would be to deal with:

A) Licensed financial planner
B) In business for at least 10 years
C) Local physical office in the community


Yes - tough requirements but not much touches to the seriousness of potentially ruining a senior financially or putting them in a bad financial situation.

I personally would never touch annuities. I do not have the proper financial background to look at a senior's portfolio, make any recommendation and sleep at night. Just the fact that some of you think it's only about "CD vs Annuity" is scary enough.

But money makes people do things they otherwise wouldn't do.

 

[Mr. Bill]

Just to clear something up - licenses aren't issued to financial planners. Securities licenses to registered reps, CFP is a trademarked certification, just like the RFC. Some states allow Registered Investment Advisors use of "financial planner" by default, a registration issue with the state and/or FINRA.

Don't really care too much about the local physical office stuff. As I'm sure with your health business, the tools are not in the office, per se. With respect to the 10 years part, it's more than that. It's the ability to manage emotions in an emotional world, but with the intent that you're helping the client to create their personal outcomes. This is why you won't catch a true financial planner at a wirehouse - anytime you have restrictions on what you can say, do, recommend or sell, you have lost all objectivity, and in that respect, I have to disagree with the organization that issues the CFP certification to wirehouse reps. It absolutely makes no sense to put a client in a position where, by training, you know they're doing something wrong (let's say with their mortgage) and yet you're restricted from making a recommendation on it because of your employer. It's simply outside the scope of selling securities.

Oh, but the commissions on the life insurance cases for the wirehouses are awesome (for the wirehouse!)

 

[URDRWHO]

What? If you sell Bentley's must you own one? If you sell airplanes must you own one. If you sell Medicare Supps, must you own one? The previous guy is correct....you do pose the craziest arguments. Insurance is your place, please never become a defence attorney.

Wrong analogy. I sell and have health insurance. If a life agent is touting UL I'd expect them to have UL - not term. If an agent is recommending an annuity I'd want to know how theirs has been performing.

It doesn't mean you need to have the same annuity you're recommending since, like you said, it depends on the client.

I can have Assurant and tout GR due to a wide variety of reasons - underwriting being on of them. But again, I sell and have health insurance.

Would you like it if your stock broker didn't own a single stock (was invested in other instruments) yet went on about how great stocks were?

Fair enough if you don't have an one - but as a client I'd want to know why.

 

[URDRWHO]

In my 17 years on that side of fence, I never worked at a wire-house. I didn't want to be pushing their latest hot issue. I did learn a little about who sites on the NASD boards and it is people from the big houses. They loved to make rules that were egregious to the independent broker dealers. I've always wondered why nobody started up a competitor to the NASD? When you read about when the NASD Corporation was hatched the idea was to have competition.

My last two years I was a State RIA. I found dealing with the State SEC people to be more enjoyable and more logical than the NASD.

Just to clear something up - licenses aren't issued to financial planners. Securities licenses to registered reps, CFP is a trademarked certification, just like the RFC. Some states allow Registered Investment Advisors use of "financial planner" by default, a registration issue with the state and/or FINRA.

Don't really care too much about the local physical office stuff. As I'm sure with your health business, the tools are not in the office, per se. With respect to the 10 years part, it's more than that. It's the ability to manage emotions in an emotional world, but with the intent that you're helping the client to create their personal outcomes. This is why you won't catch a true financial planner at a wirehouse - anytime you have restrictions on what you can say, do, recommend or sell, you have lost all objectivity, and in that respect, I have to disagree with the organization that issues the CFP certification to wirehouse reps. It absolutely makes no sense to put a client in a position where, by training, you know they're doing something wrong (let's say with their mortgage) and yet you're restricted from making a recommendation on it because of your employer. It's simply outside the scope of selling securities.

Oh, but the commissions on the life insurance cases for the wirehouses are awesome (for the wirehouse!)

 

[URDRWHO]

I must tell you this and you have seen my length of time and experience.

Ten years experience to sell an annuity is just not an argument. It is an opinion and pointless. You can become a medical doctor is 10 years.

You just don't like annuities. That's fine but there are a lot of people that own them and fell good about it.

Commission hungry? Do you send those Assurant and Golden Rule commissions back to them. You must be the first altruistic insurance agent out there.

And yes, you should own an annuity and be a trained and licensed financial planner to sell annuities.

And by the way - don't equate health insurance to dealing with money that a senior has literally worked their whole life for - and now is trusting to some commission hungry broke agent waiting for his next check to he can gas up.

Now - before I get blasted for that one, it's also true that some unethical stock broker could soak them just as well as an agent.

That's why my advise for any senior taking financial advise would be to deal with:

A) Licensed financial planner
B) In business for at least 10 years
C) Local physical office in the community


Yes - tough requirements but not much touches to the seriousness of potentially ruining a senior financially or putting them in a bad financial situation.

I personally would never touch annuities. I do not have the proper financial background to look at a senior's portfolio, make any recommendation and sleep at night. Just the fact that some of you think it's only about "CD vs Annuity" is scary enough.

But money makes people do things they otherwise wouldn't do.

 

[Crabcake Johnny]

What? If you sell Bentley's must you own one? If you sell airplanes must you own one. If you sell Medicare Supps, must you own one? The previous guy is correct....you do pose the craziest arguments. Insurance is your place, please never become a defence attorney.

Actually, that's exactly the case. When I sold Pontiacs we all drove new Pontiac demos. The first thing I got when I went to sell Beemers was a Beemer demo to drive - every senior sales rep owned one. But the dealership owner didn't want any of his sales people driving around in anything but a Beemer.

Obviously there are situations where a rep cannot own the product. Annuities are not one of those situations. Justify it all you want....large commissions often require justification.

 

[senior-advisor-indiana]

Its rediculous that you think a senior shuld buy from a senior. I started with seniors when I was 22. I am 28 now. I have had some seniors tell me they would rather work with someone young like me than deal with someone that they will out live.

Your opinions are ridiculous because ...
1. You know nothing about annuities except for they have surrender charges.

2. You know nothing about the senior market and do not work the senior market.

Do you do anything besides major med?

If you are worried about some agent losing the hard earned money that a senior has made, then shouldn't you be more worried about them having their money in stocks or MF's?
I have never lost a client a dime or had any complaints.