Did you just lose your favorite fraternal?

[jdeasy]

You lost me at "according to rouse". I'm not going to continue to address claims made by an avowed fraternal hater.

Let him go out and make those claims he makes here to fraternal clients and see where he ends up.

Or you can follow his lead and do it yourself and see where you end up.

The contract says the death benefit and the premiums are guaranteed. If you make the argument that it's not a valid contract them make it in the proper place.

Or, just follow the lead of an internet warrior and see how that works out for you.

 

[rousemark]

You lost me at "according to rouse". I'm not going to continue to address claims made by an avowed fraternal hater.

Let him go out and make those claims he makes here to fraternal clients and see where he ends up.

Or you can follow his lead and do it yourself and see where you end up.

The contract says the death benefit and the premiums are guaranteed. If you make the argument that it's not a valid contract them make it in the proper place.

Or, just follow the lead of an internet warrior and see how that works out for you.

I am not nor have I ever been an avowed fraternal hater. I just beleive in telling the people the truth about what they are buying. I have never nor would anyone else get in trouble for revealing the maintenance of reserve clause in the fraternal certificates.

If a person buys $10k the certificate will always be a $10k certificate. But if it has a 25%:assesmenr against it, the beneficiary will only receive $7500. Try convincing that beneficiary that the death benefit was not reduced.

 

[DonP]

Jd is there a maintenance of reserve clause in the contract and can the amount of death benefit be contractually reduced ? Or are you sitting here saying if I have a $10k policy I'll 100% get paid $10k no matter if kskj goes under ? It's a very easy question. It's either #1 or #2 . With a non fraternal I can make that guarantee based on the last 150 yrs . As I said I sell rna so I'm not picking on kskj . I want to know the answer . And your no longer with kskj .

 

[Baseball7]

Same re-insurance company behind Omaha is behind most fraternals, end of conversation.

 

[DonP]

Same re-insurance company behind Omaha is behind most fraternals, end of conversation.

Then why did Royal acraum not pay the full death benefit on some claims ? Reinsurance is for claims above a certain amount . It doesn't guarantee the claims . You got a bone to pick as your pushing polish falcons hard .

 

[WinoBlues]

Jd is there a maintenance of reserve clause in the contract and can the amount of death benefit be contractually reduced ?

He has said no to both.

Maybe it is just KSKJ thing or it does not exist any longer. I seem to recall that the argument before was that it had just not happened before or that the company was X years old and stable.

 

[jdeasy]

He has said no to both.

Maybe it is just KSKJ thing or it does not exist any longer. I seem to recall that the argument before was that it had just not happened before or that the company was X years old and stable.

I did not say any such thing.

 

[rousemark]

I don't know about Equitable but they don't seem to be competitive. I don't "feel" them out there.

For the last year Foresters has not been a player. Not so much because of being a fraternal but because of just who they are. I've been contracted with them for 8 years and never cared for them but I would their products in spite of the management when it was in my client's interest.

I've only had one contestable claim with them and they did not pay it. it took them 10 months also to decide to not pay. I've had a handful of non contestable claims with them and they were paid fairly quickly but slower any other company I have pay non contestable claims. Most of those are assigned at the funeral home so that's a really a non issue.

Their member benefits are nothing to brag about so I don't. I did almost lose a couple of clients because of the hassle they got when trying to use the legal aid.

I write whatever is in the best interest of my client and that I can get through underwriting. That has been Foresters one time since the changes of last July.

I have replaced some Foresters and I will use the fraternal against them. I agree with Newby on the fraternal thing. I have no problem using them but all things being equal I will use a policy over a certificate.

I also agree with nfl that using that alone is a scare tactic when talking about large A rated fraternals. Now a small fraternal that lower than an A rating or even not rated at all as some of them are, I would be scared to use them so it would be a scare tactic to say that, but a true scare tactic.

Maybe with other companies making changes then Foresters will fall back into the mix? If they do I will just hold my nose and write them again.

JD, do you still agree with your past statements?

 

[DonP]

JD, do you still agree with your past statements?

Jd wrote the above ???? Lol lol

 

[Heretolearn]

You have to read carefully. It's easy to take it the way you did but no where does the letter say that National Underwriting had poor persistency. It says that the KSKJ product was priced in a way that they had to have higher than industry standards with persistency. Their standards were always very high and we met them every year until this year.

This year (I was first alerted in November) close to half of our agents that had earned their convention on sales volume had fallen below the 85% persistency. Those agents were mostly around 80% and while that is still good for most FE companies it's totally unacceptable the way KSKJ was priced. The other half of our agents ranged from 85 to 95% 13th month persistency. No one claims that National Underwriting Service had bad persistency by FE industry standards.

I think the main problem for them was that too much of their total business was with one product type (simplified issue whole-life) which is considered sub-standard business by the re-insurers and the huge majority of their business was through one agency. They have been trying to bring their new whole-life product to market for 2-years and it's my assumption that they were having trouble getting it approved due to those reasons.

I can't imagine any other reason that any company would cancel agents with 90 to 95% persistency, many of which don't even take advanced commissions just because some other agents had fallen below their required 85%. But that is just my guess. The reason they actually told me was they are moving entirely to a traditional fraternal-style of agent force. Meaning agents who work referrals from regional fraternal meetings and dinners. They said they do not want to work with agents who purchase any type of leads going forward. And that is why even our agents that had 85-95% persistency are not the type of agents they want to work with going forward. Because they buy leads instead of network referrals and their warm market.

Regardless we had a fantastic 9-year run with them. They were great to work with most of those years. This year had gotten a little different due to the drastic changes they made with their home office staff and sending all of their day to day administration to a third party vendor. That was not a smooth transition and was certainly the cause of any increase in policy cancelations as we had pointed out to them all year.

Overall I have nothing bad to say other than the way they handled their abrupt decision to completely change direction. I do not like that they had nearly 40 of our agents that worked hard for them all year to earn their convention trip and then took it away from them. That was not a classy way to handle that. They were actively helping agents with travel arrangements right up to the day before they sent them an email that they had canceled them. I can understand not wanting 80 people (agents and spouses) at your national convention telling your other agents that they won't be there next year. But I think they should have let our agents have their trip as planned and take the other 10 to 15 agents and staff at a separate date or to a different resort. They said they are going to give the agents compensation in place of the trip so that will be good if they do but it was still a slap in the face to agents that had worked hard for them and had a great relationship for many years.

We have a LOT of business on the books and as long as they keep paying our client's claims which they always have been great at and keep paying the agents their commissions that they are owed I accept that they just had to make a business decision and I hope they are successful in their new direction and stay as a great company for many years to come.

I haven't been paid in over 3 yrs. Which means I'm assuming you haven't been paid your overrides on me in over 3 yrs from them. So can't say they keep paying the commissions.