Florida shooting...

[Robert Barney]

You are right it is not the answer...by itself that is. The Virginia Tech shooter used 9mm Glock if I’m not mistaken and he killed almost twice as many folks than in Florida. He had mental health issues & he was a foreign student. Those two to me should have hindered him from purchasing a gun. It should be a combination of age, mental health, and weapon choice due to magazines working together to stop events like this from happening. You might be the right age and pick a simple hand gun but your mental health is not on par ergo you can’t get a weapon. Something like that

Amusing. Perhaps the FBI can call the tooth fairy to check and see which people should be denied guns. And maybe the tooth fairy can be paid each time she reports the acquisition of a gun by someone who wasn't allow to get it legally.

All of this is a tangential dance-around to dodge the obvious and simple solution. Let teachers who have or obtain carry concealed permits have their guns in school. Quit worrying about one armed guard per thousand students and let several teachers volunteer for the job. If it's California and no teachers volunteer for the job, then get an armed guard. If people are worried about students stealing the teachers guns then pay to have quality, personal gun safes installed close to where the teacher is located in the school. If a teacher doesn't want to participate then they shouldn't have to.

Step inside the Texas school that already arms its teachers - CNN

I disagree with Trump about paying the teachers a bonus. I would rather have the school underwrite all costs related to having and/or training with the gun, including compensation for the teachers time during training. If you just pay them to have a gun, then a bunch of liberal teachers will just get the gun to get the bonus and those folks will be useless.

I would send them here:

Absolutely the best handgun training for civilians - Review of Front Sight Firearms Training Institute-Day Classes, Pahrump, NV - TripAdvisor

 

[sman]

You are right it is not the answer...by itself that is. The Virginia Tech shooter used 9mm Glock if I’m not mistaken and he killed almost twice as many folks than in Florida. He had mental health issues & he was a foreign student. Those two to me should have hindered him from purchasing a gun. It should be a combination of age, mental health, and weapon choice due to magazines working together to stop events like this from happening. You might be the right age and pick a simple hand gun but your mental health is not on par ergo you can’t get a weapon. Something like that

Now I'm confused. In one post you dismiss my example of the Columbine shooters having a 9mm as not being as effective as the AR-15 because the Columbine shooters didn't kill as many as the ONE Florida shooter who had an AR. And in this post you cite an example of a person using a 9mm and killing nearly twice as many as the Florida shooter did with an AR. So is the 9mm as effective or not?

 

[Tothetop]

Nothing to be confused about. You compared a hand gun to a rifle. I said one seems to be more advantageous in these tragedies than the other. Simple

Fex said banning certain rifles isn't the answer. I chose to acknowledge the VA tech shooting to show its not the answer in and of itself.

That being said, those shootings had certain variables that made them so bad.

That shooting occurrd over the span of two hours. He killed two in the morning, then went to his dorm and reloaded, then barricaded a hall, and killed 30 in the span of 9 minutes (ehich sounds short but is a really long time to do damage.) There were so many variables that allowed him to do that much damage.

Same with Columbine. I'm not sure if you can remember but one of the biggest problems with that was the police who arrived were trained to wait on the Swat team. As a result many lives were lost in the time they waited. Again more variables outside of using a 9mm that allowed for the extent of those tragedies.

I get you Sman, trust me. I get what your saying about semi automatics- you pull a trigger and a bullet comes out, AR-15 is exactly like a Ruger, and in essence "a gun is a gun." But it really is not as black and white as you are making it sound.

 

[Tothetop]

BTW I would encourage you to read what Gov. Rick Scott said on the front page of thehill.com

To summarize, he drew up legislation for gun control that involved raising the age limit, (mind you he is strongly supported by the NRA and they don' like that stance.)

But he said something interesting. Simply put, he said some will say his legislation is not enough and others will say it's too much but keep in mind there are people who want to completely take away our 2nd amendment rights and he said that is not the answer.

You can't please everyone but we definitely all agree something has to be finally done. No more prayers alone and like the governor we all have to be willing to yield.

 

[Robert Barney]

And the solution is to punish law abiding gun owners?

FBI Tip-Line Caller Said Nikolas Cruz ‘Is Going to Explode’

 

[DHK]

I've been having a Facebook discussion with an elementary school teacher, and we've finally agreed on NON-LETHAL defensive ideas: rubber bullets, tazers, and pepper spray. Whatever would take the least amount in cost and training.

The idea would be to DISABLE an attacker and DISARM them, IF possible. Not killing the (most likely) former student, and not storing lethal ammunition/firearms in the classroom, but having some kind of defense.

Perhaps gun free zones don't have to be "defenseless" zones.


Seattle Police Release Footage of Heroic Student's Actions During 2014 Seattle Pacific University Shooting Rampage

Student Jon Meis takes heroic actions by deploying mace and disarming a gunman who shot three, then he returns as the shooter pulls a knife and wrestles that away from him too.

Embedded media from this media site is no longer available

 

[Robert Barney]

The idea would be to DISABLE an attacker and DISARM them, IF possible. Not killing the (most likely) former student, and not storing lethal ammunition/firearms in the classroom, but having some kind of defense.

Expecting someone to confront lethal force with non-lethal force is unrealistic. it's the old, bring a knife to a gunfight strategy or shoot to wound not kill. Sorry, none of that makes any sense.

Confrontations like this take seconds. There is no time to think about what to do or form a strategy.

If confronted by an individual who causes me to fear for my life, the only strategy is to shoot until they are dead.

Why Police Aren't Trained to Shoot to Wound

 

[DHK]

Teachers won't shoot to kill - generally. Particularly since every school shooter has been either a current or former student of that school. (We're not talking about a drive-by bank robbery here.)

But they can sting the hell out of someone in self-defense.

 

[Robert Barney]

Teachers won't shoot to kill - generally. Particularly since every school shooter has been either a current or former student of that school. (We're not talking about a drive-by bank robbery here.)

Once again, no one should be forced to carry a gun. If you believe you could never shoot someone to kill them then don't carry a gun. If you do, you'll only arm an unarmed assailant.

If you want to have a taser or pepper spray knock yourself out. But don't harbor an illusion it will be useful if a prick like the recent school shooter comes intending to kill students.

And while a teacher might hesitate until the perp shoots the first kid, I think after the first kid is shot it won't be that hard to kill the perp to save the lives of other potential victims (including yourself).

And on a final note, with respect to the Florida school shooting, it sounded like everyone in the school had an opinion about this kid, that he was dangerous and a threat. I'm not sure how sympathetic an armed teacher would have been before the first kid was shot.

 

[Robert Barney]

We're not talking about a drive-by bank robbery here.

As I said, I carry a gun all the time (concealed). If I was in a bank or store and an armed robbery began, I would not be in any rush to jump in and try to shoot the perp or rescue strangers. I am not armed to save someone else's life, I carry a gun to defend my own life and the lives of my family.

I was in a restaurant with a friend and the discussion of self defense came up. At a point in the conversation I told him I always carried and when he asked if I had a gun at that moment I said yes. He then asked what would I do if someone came into the restaurant and pointed a gun at the teller wanting to rob them. I said I would remove my gun, if I could do so inconspicuously, and keep it ready next to me. I told him I would do nothing to try and shoot the perp. If the perp shot the teller and left, I would put my gun away, I would not pursue. If the perp shot the teller, and began walking into the restaurant where I was, then I would engage. If the perp did not shoot the teller, and began robbing patron's at gun point, and was making his way to me, I would wait for the best opportunity and engage.

A civilian carrying a gun is NOT a cop. When you are in the midst of strangers, someone has to die first before I would engage. If the perp comes anywhere in my direction with a gun, then I would engage.

As a civilian, the gun is only used for self defense. If someone is robbing your house, and you confront them with a gun and they head for the door, let them run.

Here's an example of what I would not have done: