Here It Comes: Governement Health Plan

[Dave020]

Al, this one came in right behind the one you posted:

As an added emphasis to our grassroots power we are turning to you as a constituent in a key state. Either you have a moderate Senator or your Congressman is a member of the moderate Blue Dog Democrats, both of which will prove to be critical roles as legislation develops.
We are asking you to participate in an additional "phone call" Operation Shout. Please call your Congressman's office directly to speak with his or her Health Legislative Assistant on preserving Americans' access to the high level of personal service, policy knowledge and accountability that distinguishes the professional agent, broker and consultant.

NAHU will also be coming out with a collection of Broker's Making a Difference stories on Monday. We will publish the document on our website as well as email it out to all of our members. This collection of tales of how our members help American health care consumers will bring tears to your eyes. When you talk to your Congressman's Health Legislative Assistant, along with our message on preserving the role of the agent, also inform them of this new document and ask them for the best way to get it to them. This will allow you the opportunity to follow up with them next week with the stories and an additional letter.

Thank you for your continued grassroots work and your participation in this additional Phone Call Operation Shout!

I'd say it is becoming apparent that agents selling health insurance may have been thrown under the bus.
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Well, you have been in this biz longer than I have so I'll defer to you on what would constitute proper political activity, however I got this today... and it seems to contradict your message above:


Maybe Dave is right, but I've always believed that "Decisions are made by those who show up." I've also believed that a personal letter or phone call from a constituent weighs far greater than a bunch of form-letters generated from an interest group's web site or visit from the lobbyist.

But what do I know? (Winter can answer that one for you!!)

Al

Does not at all contradict my message. This is a request from the Association to contact directly. My original point was that you let the Association do their work first and not circumnavigate.

The AMA may ask doctors to contact representatives directly. But certainly most if not all doctors with a complaint would take it TO AMA first before doing that. They would look rather foolish registering a complaint only to be told that the representative has heard nothing about it from the AMA.

AARP may well ask seniors to write letters and make phone calls. But not until after AARP has met with the resistance.

We will just have to agree to disagree on this. I have never found any worthwhile result from contacting a representative directly about insurance issues (even the most egregious). Once they find out you are an agent, they don't hear a word.

 

[Guest]

I'd say it is becoming apparent that agents selling health insurance may have been thrown under the bus.

From the second email (which I also received) I don't quite see how you came to this conclusion, although I've long advocated that all of the "HUs" are bought and paid for by the large carriers... which is why I dropped my membership last year (however they still send me their email blasts... which is OK with me.)

Unlike most here, I don't care if we get a single payor system with a mandate, or if there is some way to keep the private sector as a viable service provider. I just want to see a system that works and where people don't lose their homes and savings should they get sick because they don't have insurance... because they can't afford it.

Unlike Winter and the rest of the neo-cons here, I am willing to sacrifice the six-figure income that they make in order for a everyone (yes, even working poor people) to be able to get health care. I don't care if they are fat, smoking, boozing, irresponsible trailer trash. They are human beings and I don't mind paying taxes so that they don't die in the street. I know that is an anathema to all of you Ayn Rand neo-cons but you guys had your chance to convince America with your two candidates and a majority of voters chose my candidates.

You can stage your tea parties... I encourage you do do so... but we ARE going to have a sea-change in health financing in the near future... which maybe is another way of saying that elections matter... which is another way of saying, as I've said in this thread... counter to Dave... that decisions are made by those who show up.

If you think you will have more political clout as a "stooge" of NAHU, by all means dance to their tune. However, I think you will have more influence if you simply represent yourself as an agent, a citizen, a voter, and a taxpayer and not as a representative of any established lobbying organization.

I think you reactionary neo-cons have a shot at killing any kind of health care finance reform. You folks are not too good at getting things done, but you are pretty good at blocking anything new.... being the 'party of no.' And you've got a highly popular and visible spokesperson for your cause in Rush Limbaugh (and Newt to a somewhat lesser extent.) I have no doubt that Dave and Winter and all the other NAHU members might be able to stem the reformist tide and maintain your beloved status quo for another four years.... perhaps eight.

I'm sure, metaphorically speaking, the cartoon below is representative of what all of you conservatives, in your heart of hearts, want to see continue.:

 

[midwestbroker]

I can see Al's point on everyone having access to health care...but here is my view...

We have systems in place that could insure everyone. From Medicaid to high risk state pools...so why is that not working? The government runs it and health care is still an issue.

So, they have not done this correctly, and they are now wanting to revamp the whole system. They have done a bang up job so far...

Would I give up my 100K sales career like Al? As soon as congress and the senate do, I will consider it. Until then, no.

 

[TXINSURANCE]

We have systems in place that could insure everyone. From Medicaid to high risk state pools...so why is that not working? The government runs it and health care is still an issue.

Because of the cost.

 

[Paradigm]

From an actual Ayn Rand conservative perspective; people don't get what they deserve and earn; they get what they are willing to fight for. Too many in the country don't fight for anything they whine and whimper and cajole and say poor me why was I dealt such cards.

If you are fat it is your fault, you didnt get fat overnight. If you are lazy it is your fault, for with work comes rewards. If you are uneducated it is your fault, for knowledge is the greatest asset of all. If you are poor it is your fault, for poverty is a mindset not a physical condition.

These statements aren't true worldwide but they are true of the USA; where we have more opportunity than we even recognize but people take far less responsibility than they are capable of.

Runaway government bloat will destroy this nation as it has destroyed every program and action it has created.

Prohibition created the mob but did nothing to improve morals

The New Deal was to end the depression it didnt

The Great Society was to eliminate poverty it didnt

The War to end all wars just created smaller wars

The war on drugs just made drugs more in demand

The war to reform healthcare will bankrupt this nation

It's time for John Galt to awaken and for Atlas to shrug off the fetters of government intrusion and interference. Perhaps then a new Fountainhead of self reliance and productivity can spring up and carry us on to better days for our great nation.

 

[Dave020]

From the second email (which I also received) I don't quite see how you came to this conclusion, although I've long advocated that all of the "HUs" are bought and paid for by the large carriers... which is why I dropped my membership last year (however they still send me their email blasts... which is OK with me.)

Just a feeling. NAHU is asking agents to write or call to justify that we are good in the equation. Government already uses us to help enroll in state programs, so we are a known quantity (federal level all Medicare enrollments, supplements and MA/PDP are done or can be done by licensed agents who get paid by either the carrier or CMS through the carrier).

The last meeting trimmed $2 Trillion off of costs next 10 years. Maybe part of that equation is a cut of the agent and sales force costs?

Just a thought. All I am saying is, maybe the beaurocrats aren't the one's we need to watch out for.

 

[Winter_123]

I know that is an anathema to all of you Ayn Rand neo-cons but you guys had your chance to convince America with your two candidates and a majority of voters chose my candidates.

And nowhere in this country is your view and the view of "your candidates" supported more than in California.

California is now a ward of the state and on a heart-lung machine. You exemplify the model of "compassionate liberalism" where you support everything for everyone to the point where the system collapses and people end out with less than they would have had under a more moderate fiscal approach that at least kept the ship afloat. That is the Cuban model. Everything for everyone while collapsing the system so that you have three people in a hospital bed and the doctors working as hookers to supplement their non-living wage as they are currently doing in Cuba. But the goal is to have a system that you "feel" good about even if it doesnt work. That is the lib way.

You keep touting that your people won and your people are in charge in the workers paradise known as California and that we need to just accept that. That works for me. Despite the fact that you are completely and totally broke, if someone introduced a bill in the California Assembly tomorrow giving everyone $5000 to raise their esteem in these difficult times, I think it would probably pass or at least you would be there protesting any opposition to it. Go for it. Do whatever you want but DO NOT CALL THE REST OF THE COUNTRY FOR HELP OR TRY TO GET THE REST OF THE COUNTRY IN YOUR LIFEBOAT WITH YOUR NUTCASE FISCAL POLICIES OR LACK THEREOF.

There is a vote coming up next week in California. As you would say Al, elections and votes matter and what matters is that people show up. You will have some people show up believe me. You are screwed if people show up and vote to continue with programs that have no revenue to go with them and screwed if they vote to cut the budget and watch your social services system collapse. That is some choice.

Change coming right up in California. I used to know a lawyer who was a complete and total drunk as many of them are and he was in total, total, total denial. The ambulance would pick him up off the sidewalk and take him to the hospital to detox. Next day he could walk in the room and tell you at length how he was better than everyone else. Can you spell "California liberal" boys and girls?

Change you can believe in. California leading the way.

 

[GreenSky]

Unlike Winter and the rest of the neo-cons here, I am willing to sacrifice the six-figure income that they make in order for a everyone ...

Nice of you to be willing for OTHERS to sacrifice their income. Ever listen to the song "Love me I'm a Liberal?"

What happens when you run out of other people's money to spend?

Rick
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Would I give up my 100K sales career like Al?

Don't make assumptions about other people's income.

Rick

 

[Guest]

Winter and GreenSky make the same old, tired, arguments we all heard back in 1963 when Medicare was debated.

Their theme is that government is evil and that only the private sector can save us. What they fail to mention is that in the health financing arena it is the private sector... that got us where we are today.

I'm sure GreenSky and Winter together would gladly dismantle government so that it does nothing but pubic safety. We'd have private schools, toll roads, private parks, etc. And maybe that is not a bad idea... at least I'm willing to consider it.

The problem is that all I hear from Winter and his neo-cons and GreenSky and his anarchist Libertarians... is criticism of the so-called liberal agenda.

I've yet to hear from either of them a solution to the health insurance "problem" that can (or could) be solved by the private sector.

Tell me how KP, Anthem, Aetna, Blue Cross, and Health Net (the ones I write for in CA) can fix the problem without government spending or involvement.

It is easy to be critical. But "my guys" who are running things now have a much more difficult task... to fix the problem "your guys" left.

I've already told you what my solution is.... a total broad based restructuring of the health care delivery system... from training docs to tax incentives for new ones, to a single payor national finance system. It probably won't happen, but it could... if the neo-cons would all of a sudden disappear into Albania where they would be much happier.

So come on Winter and GreenSky, tell us what YOU want to do... not what you don't want done. Layout to me what health care should look like by this time 24 months from now.

Considering all the crap I get for being the ONLY progressive ("liberal" is OK... if you can apply that term to someone who voted for GW Bush twice) on this board.. I think it is fair to ask the neo-cons and anarchists what THEY want done and HOW they would do it.

Al

 

[insurehound]

You can write all the letters and make all the phone calls you want - that will not change anything. When have our politicians ever listened to us in the past? Your letters and phone calls do not weigh in even close to their power, greed and pay-off.

I for one do not want to sacrifice yet another great pillar of America to bring all Americans down to a lower level. The liberals are always finding ways to do this. Liberals never bring the people up (look at the illegal aliens issue), it's always bring the rest of us down. They talk about how in three generations, illegal aliens will become better Americans, "they just need more time". Bull! If you never teach them to become better citizens and keep giving them handouts, what incentive do they have to become better?

And I should give up superb health care so that some a**hole who made bad decisions himself can have health coverage. No way! I make average money but sacrifice every month to pay my health premium because it is a priority. I make no excuses.

You look at the stats that talk about the poor uninsured in this country. Many do have the income to pay for coverage but refuse to as they rather buy that new boat or RV or dune buggy. NOT MY PROBLEM!

The problem with liberals is that they think in "nice-to-have" terms. Never realists. It would be lovely to have health care for all but that is not feasible. In socialist systems, you always have the few that work and the many who sponge off of the few. Everyone needs to be responsible for themselves.

Of course with Liberals, they make big statements of how much they are willing to sacrifice until it affects them. The same group that talks how others should donate to worthy causes but donate very little themselves. It's always "do as I say but not as I do".

Then when they (liberals) receive subpar care, the liberals will bitch and moan. They never listened to the horror stories of universal healthcare in other countries. But man, it sure made them feel good by supporting health care for all and telling others how much they are willing to sacrifice.

And the politicians who pass this crap will use private healthcare for themselves. You watch. Do you think Obama or Pelosi will use government healthcare? More "do as I say and not as I do". Oh, and that will go for the crappy Republicans as well. They are all crooks and liars!