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How much can a client in Tennessee potentially sue for an agent fraudulently getting them approved to roll $500k

Nicolacrayola

Expert
40
I have a couple in Tennessee that I was referred to that had rolled their qualified retirement money into 2 fixed indexed annuities of approximately $260,000 each about two years ago with an additional $25,000 going to a new contract a few months ago. Nothing against FIA’s-but not only were these clients the last people that would ever be appropriate for, the agent completely misrepresented how these products work to the extent that the clients believed that their money was entirely liquid and would increase at least 10% annually, but they also had no idea that they would be required to wait 10 years to trigger income as they were planning to retire within two years I made it very clear to him. He also completely fabricated the entire suitability section for both of the two applications I have been able to get my hands on thus far (there are actually four, because the smaller annuity was going to go somewhere else originally and for some reason, the guy changed his mind. Anyways, not only did the numbers that he put down on both suitability forms where zero resemblance to the actual situation, they did not even bear any resemblance to each other, which makes it very clear that he was just saying whatever he thought he should to get them approved. We have already attempted to get the clients released penalty free under free look provision, as they literally never in two years, receive ANY of the three contracts despite begging the agent repeatedly. We were denied initially, as we were told that policy receipts were not required in Tennessee, and one company informed us that they had a digital acknowledgment of policy receipt on file, but funny enough refused to answer me when I repeatedly asked whether the IP address indicated that it had been done by the client, or by the agent. We are not trying to be vicious-but this client was severely wronged and if they will not allow him to leave penalty free based on free look provision we really have no option but to expose the astronomical level of fraud. I have never discovered anywhere near this level of fraud myself before and wanted to see if anybody had any advice on how to get my clients the best possible outcome in terms of getting at the very least all of the original money back, but hopefully a settlement in addition to that, and doing so in the quickest and least stressful way for them. Please note that I myself am willing to do any amount of work necessary, but I do not want to stress them more than necessary. I am questioning a bit whether it would be advisable to go straight to the insurance commissioner as it may be headed there anyways, but it seems that it would be a much more drawn out process that way, and I would certainly think that with this level of evidence, the carriers would back down to avoid being named as codefendants.

Any advice anyone? The actual owner of the IRAs was 61 at the time the initial annuities were issued-i definitely plan to investigate whether there’s anyway to still have this considered elder abuse as I believe it would have been if she was four or five months older. Again I’m not trying to disastrous but these clients basically became my family and I just want to make things right for them and give them the best outcome possible.
 
You are apparently not an attorney. You need to stop what you are trying to do for these people and think about how close you are to crossing over into the Unauthorized Practice of Law.


Those people need an attorney to advise and represent them in litigation against the fraudulent agent.

If a complaint to the insurance commissioner is warranted they must make it themselves because they are the ones who have been defrauded, not you.

If you have actual evidence of the fraud, i.e. documents that are a smoking gun, so to speak, then turn the documents over to the client so that they can discuss it with their attorney.

If they get the $500,000 back and have to pay a penalty, they sue for the penalty. If there were any guaranteed earnings that they didn't get, they can sue for that. As for believing that their investment would grow 10% per year, that's never guaranteed and there is probably fine print in the presentations that say that.

Again, an attorney is the person that should be advising them about their options and you should be encouraging that.

If the agent really did commit fraud, the matter should also be referred to the District Attorney for potential criminal prosecution.
 
I have a couple in Tennessee that I was referred to that had rolled their qualified retirement money into 2 fixed indexed annuities of approximately $260,000 each about two years ago with an additional $25,000 going to a new contract a few months ago. Nothing against FIA’s-but not only were these clients the last people that would ever be appropriate for, the agent completely misrepresented how these products work to the extent that the clients believed that their money was entirely liquid and would increase at least 10% annually, but they also had no idea that they would be required to wait 10 years to trigger income as they were planning to retire within two years I made it very clear to him. He also completely fabricated the entire suitability section for both of the two applications I have been able to get my hands on thus far (there are actually four, because the smaller annuity was going to go somewhere else originally and for some reason, the guy changed his mind. Anyways, not only did the numbers that he put down on both suitability forms where zero resemblance to the actual situation, they did not even bear any resemblance to each other, which makes it very clear that he was just saying whatever he thought he should to get them approved. We have already attempted to get the clients released penalty free under free look provision, as they literally never in two years, receive ANY of the three contracts despite begging the agent repeatedly. We were denied initially, as we were told that policy receipts were not required in Tennessee, and one company informed us that they had a digital acknowledgment of policy receipt on file, but funny enough refused to answer me when I repeatedly asked whether the IP address indicated that it had been done by the client, or by the agent. We are not trying to be vicious-but this client was severely wronged and if they will not allow him to leave penalty free based on free look provision we really have no option but to expose the astronomical level of fraud. I have never discovered anywhere near this level of fraud myself before and wanted to see if anybody had any advice on how to get my clients the best possible outcome in terms of getting at the very least all of the original money back, but hopefully a settlement in addition to that, and doing so in the quickest and least stressful way for them. Please note that I myself am willing to do any amount of work necessary, but I do not want to stress them more than necessary. I am questioning a bit whether it would be advisable to go straight to the insurance commissioner as it may be headed there anyways, but it seems that it would be a much more drawn out process that way, and I would certainly think that with this level of evidence, the carriers would back down to avoid being named as codefendants.

Any advice anyone? The actual owner of the IRAs was 61 at the time the initial annuities were issued-i definitely plan to investigate whether there’s anyway to still have this considered elder abuse as I believe it would have been if she was four or five months older. Again I’m not trying to disastrous but these clients basically became my family and I just want to make things right for them and give them the best outcome possible.
You can sue for anything and any amount but that does not mean you will win.
 
First, I'm not sure it's fraud. Fraud would be outright theft. Gross misrepresentation is probably it.

There is a process for complaints against agents and companies.

1) The client contacts the insurance company's compliance department (NOT "customer service") with the details and that if not resolved satisfactorily, they will go to the state DOI.

Remember that the law favors the non-drafting party of any agreement.

2) The client files a complaint with the state DOI.

3) If still not resolved, then you retain an attorney with all your documentation.
 
You are apparently not an attorney. You need to stop what you are trying to do for these people and think about how close you are to crossing over into the Unauthorized Practice of Law.


Those people need an attorney to advise and represent them in litigation against the fraudulent agent.

If a complaint to the insurance commissioner is warranted they must make it themselves because they are the ones who have been defrauded, not you.

If you have actual evidence of the fraud, i.e. documents that are a smoking gun, so to speak, then turn the documents over to the client so that they can discuss it with their attorney.

If they get the $500,000 back and have to pay a penalty, they sue for the penalty. If there were any guaranteed earnings that they didn't get, they can sue for that. As for believing that their investment would grow 10% per year, that's never guaranteed and there is probably fine print in the presentations that say that.

Again, an attorney is the person that should be advising them about their options and you should be encouraging that.

If the agent really did commit fraud, the matter should also be referred to the District Attorney for potential criminal prosecution.
I am absolutely not an attorney, and not attempting to act as one-they already have an attorney involved, and I am just trying to gather information to help make it easier and quicker for them because the whole thing has been very stressful to them
 
While it is true that many states don't require a signed delivery receipt of annuities, I believe I had read that IRAs did.

Had a carrier tell me this when I asked why their new product required a signed delivery receipt but not the other product versions they were still selling. They stated they discovered the IRS regulation related to qualified money required delivery receipt.

I don't have the specific IRS regulation that may speak to that
 
Unless the agent signed the app for them, it is very unlikely they will get their money back.

Elder abuse? Unless they are mentally impaired, it is far from that.

They signed the app in at least 4 or 5 different places. Agreeing that they understand the terms that are clearly laid out in the app.

One of those signatures is on the Surrender Charge disclosure.

Another signature is on the Income Rider disclosure.

Very difficult for them to say they did not know.... or have a chance to know. Unless they are mentally impaired.

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Regarding the product.

It is highly unlikely that they are unable to start income payments until year 10. Perhaps not with the Income Rider (only a small handful would not allow it), but the 10% withdrawals would be more than enough.

Most products also allow annuitization prior to y10.


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Regarding the situation, you are Monday morning quarterbacking on this.

Yes, it seems shady based on the suitability questions and financial info.

However, what if the clients are the ones who gave those numbers?

You dont know what you dont know in this situation.

Im not saying that you are wrong. But you dont know the other side either.

AND you are basically chasing a $500k annuity case.... dont think for a second that will not be taken into account if you make a complaint on their behalf.

The old "my product is better, the other guy ripped them off"... is something regulators hear a lot.


Unless the client initiated this situation. You are in no position to move this forward with regulators.
 
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