I heard KSKJ is rescinding some policy’s

[Rick Lee]

Good way to lose your vested renewals.

I'm losing them anyway when they're eaten up by chargebacks due to these rescissions. For the healthy folks, there's little harm in taking them elsewhere and getting that first year commission all over again. I wouldn't go looking to do this, except that KSKJ is forcing the issue.

 

[Newby]

What they have communicated to us is that they have subscribed to a new underwriting system from Milliman that has been available for several years but new to them. This digs much deeper than any system they have used before. They are using it for "Post-Issue Underwriting" and they said the majority of cases they have hits with are Diabetics with amputations and COPD with Oxygen use.

So far the cases that our agents have followed up with have found no one with less than 10-fingers and 10-toes and no one that has ever been on oxygen. They will have to get the details of the recisions from Milliman to find what they are basing the recision on which needs to be done on every case.

It's extra concerning that each one of the affected seniors has a cover letter from the president of KSKJ with their certificate (fraternals don't have policies) that clearly states on it's 1st billet point; This is Whole-Life protection. Your coverage can NEVER be canceled for any reason except for failure to pay your premium.

My opinion of this is very different than what I just read in this thread from JD. I have worked with many insurance carriers over the past 30-years and I have never seen a single one of them do anything like this. Everyone knows that all simplified issue life insurance will be heavily screened when a death occurs in the 1st 24-months. And they will very often find a reason to not pay the claim. BUT before they make that decision they verify by gathering data from the medical providers to make certain they have a reason to not pay the claim.

It's true that Oxford rechecks scripts at the 6th month and Americo runs the Plan F system on them throughout the first 24-months. But those companies have only recinded a small portion of policies as far as I know and verify that they have good data before doing it.

What I believe that KSKJ is doing is trusting the Milliman data as reliable enough to cancel the coverage with no further investigation. As we all know Milliman (and all these underwriting systems) have incorrect data fairly often. I have personally had two underwriting declines on Medicare Supplement applications reversed to approvals within the last month simply by having the applicants get strongly worded letters from their doctors that they have NEVER had or been treated for the condition that Milliman is stating they have. This was on a very small sample size of ONE agent that has only had 5-declined Med Sup apps through the whole AEP and two of the five took the effort to prove that Milliman had incorrect information. It's one thing do it this way when people are applying for coverage. It's a whole other level to use data that is often wrong to cancel coverage that has been in force already.

I'm sure the draw to use a system like this appeals to any company's number crunchers. If you could take a huge block of your business and somehow eliminate 10 to 20% of the most likely to die sooner than the rest it would greatly increase profit margins. And any company can gather data 1-year to 23-months after issue and easily figure out which ones you would prefer to back out of. Then you just have to find some way to justify the recision by digging for something. I'm pretty sure amputated toes and oxygen use are not going to be turning up on many of them.

So far KSKJ is only doing the "post issue underwriting" with agents that are no longer writing with them. Many of these agents have the highest persistency of all of their agents but chose not to reappoint with KSKJ when they were invited back. It's a very concerning move by a company that I once trusted and placed a lot of business with for a lot of years.

How ethical is it to take low-income seniors that you underwrote previously using the best data you had and re-analyze them using a completely different, more advanced screening tool after they had trusted you and paid every premium on time believing their welcome letter from the company president that "They have WHOLE-LIFE protection and their coverage CAN NEVER BE CANCELED FOR ANY REASON except for failure to pay their premium? It seems obvious to me. I'm not sure what someone with clout like say a State Attorney General would say about it.

 

[jdeasy]

What they have communicated to us is that they have subscribed to a new underwriting system from Milliman that has been available for several years but new to them. This digs much deeper than any system they have used before. They are using it for "Post-Issue Underwriting" and they said the majority of cases they have hits with are Diabetics with amputations and COPD with Oxygen use.

So far the cases that our agents have followed up with have found no one with less than 10-fingers and 10-toes and no one that has ever been on oxygen. They will have to get the details of the recisions from Milliman to find what they are basing the recision on which needs to be done on every case.

It's extra concerning that each one of the affected seniors has a cover letter from the president of KSKJ with their certificate (fraternals don't have policies) that clearly states on it's 1st billet point; This is Whole-Life protection. Your coverage can NEVER be canceled for any reason except for failure to pay your premium.

My opinion of this is very different than what I just read in this thread from JD. I have worked with many insurance carriers over the past 30-years and I have never seen a single one of them do anything like this. Everyone knows that all simplified issue life insurance will be heavily screened when a death occurs in the 1st 24-months. And they will very often find a reason to not pay the claim. BUT before they make that decision they verify by gathering data from the medical providers to make certain they have a reason to not pay the claim.

It's true that Oxford rechecks scripts at the 6th month and Americo runs the Plan F system on them throughout the first 24-months. But those companies have only recinded a small portion of policies as far as I know and verify that they have good data before doing it.

What I believe that KSKJ is doing is trusting the Milliman data as reliable enough to cancel the coverage with no further investigation. As we all know Milliman (and all these underwriting systems) have incorrect data fairly often. I have personally had two underwriting declines on Medicare Supplement applications reversed to approvals within the last month simply by having the applicants get strongly worded letters from their doctors that they have NEVER had or been treated for the condition that Milliman is stating they have. This was on a very small sample size of ONE agent that has only had 5-declined Med Sup apps through the whole AEP and two of the five took the effort to prove that Milliman had incorrect information. It's one thing do it this way when people are applying for coverage. It's a whole other level to use data that is often wrong to cancel coverage that has been in force already.

I'm sure the draw to use a system like this appeals to any company's number crunchers. If you could take a huge block of your business and somehow eliminate 10 to 20% of the most likely to die sooner than the rest it would greatly increase profit margins. And any company can gather data 1-year to 23-months after issue and easily figure out which ones you would prefer to back out of. Then you just have to find some way to justify the recision by digging for something. I'm pretty sure amputated toes and oxygen use are not going to be turning up on many of them.

So far KSKJ is only doing the "post issue underwriting" with agents that are no longer writing with them. Many of these agents have the highest persistency of all of their agents but chose not to reappoint with KSKJ when they were invited back. It's a very concerning move by a company that I once trusted and placed a lot of business with for a lot of years.

How ethical is it to take low-income seniors that you underwrote previously using the best data you had and re-analyze them using a completely different, more advanced screening tool after they had trusted you and paid every premium on time believing their welcome letter from the company president that "They have WHOLE-LIFE protection and their coverage CAN NEVER BE CANCELED FOR ANY REASON except for failure to pay their premium? It seems obvious to me. I'm not sure what someone with clout like say a State Attorney General would say about it.

Their application didn't ask about amputation.

 

[Green50]

I foresee a class action lawsuit. KSKJ will lose more than just agents and policyholders.

 

[jdeasy]

I foresee a class action lawsuit. KSKJ will lose more than just agents and policyholders.

That certainly appears where this is headed.

 

[DonP]

What they have communicated to us is that they have subscribed to a new underwriting system from Milliman that has been available for several years but new to them. This digs much deeper than any system they have used before. They are using it for "Post-Issue Underwriting" and they said the majority of cases they have hits with are Diabetics with amputations and COPD with Oxygen use.

So far the cases that our agents have followed up with have found no one with less than 10-fingers and 10-toes and no one that has ever been on oxygen. They will have to get the details of the recisions from Milliman to find what they are basing the recision on which needs to be done on every case.

It's extra concerning that each one of the affected seniors has a cover letter from the president of KSKJ with their certificate (fraternals don't have policies) that clearly states on it's 1st billet point; This is Whole-Life protection. Your coverage can NEVER be canceled for any reason except for failure to pay your premium.

My opinion of this is very different than what I just read in this thread from JD. I have worked with many insurance carriers over the past 30-years and I have never seen a single one of them do anything like this. Everyone knows that all simplified issue life insurance will be heavily screened when a death occurs in the 1st 24-months. And they will very often find a reason to not pay the claim. BUT before they make that decision they verify by gathering data from the medical providers to make certain they have a reason to not pay the claim.

It's true that Oxford rechecks scripts at the 6th month and Americo runs the Plan F system on them throughout the first 24-months. But those companies have only recinded a small portion of policies as far as I know and verify that they have good data before doing it.

What I believe that KSKJ is doing is trusting the Milliman data as reliable enough to cancel the coverage with no further investigation. As we all know Milliman (and all these underwriting systems) have incorrect data fairly often. I have personally had two underwriting declines on Medicare Supplement applications reversed to approvals within the last month simply by having the applicants get strongly worded letters from their doctors that they have NEVER had or been treated for the condition that Milliman is stating they have. This was on a very small sample size of ONE agent that has only had 5-declined Med Sup apps through the whole AEP and two of the five took the effort to prove that Milliman had incorrect information. It's one thing do it this way when people are applying for coverage. It's a whole other level to use data that is often wrong to cancel coverage that has been in force already.

I'm sure the draw to use a system like this appeals to any company's number crunchers. If you could take a huge block of your business and somehow eliminate 10 to 20% of the most likely to die sooner than the rest it would greatly increase profit margins. And any company can gather data 1-year to 23-months after issue and easily figure out which ones you would prefer to back out of. Then you just have to find some way to justify the recision by digging for something. I'm pretty sure amputated toes and oxygen use are not going to be turning up on many of them.

So far KSKJ is only doing the "post issue underwriting" with agents that are no longer writing with them. Many of these agents have the highest persistency of all of their agents but chose not to reappoint with KSKJ when they were invited back. It's a very concerning move by a company that I once trusted and placed a lot of business with for a lot of years.

How ethical is it to take low-income seniors that you underwrote previously using the best data you had and re-analyze them using a completely different, more advanced screening tool after they had trusted you and paid every premium on time believing their welcome letter from the company president that "They have WHOLE-LIFE protection and their coverage CAN NEVER BE CANCELED FOR ANY REASON except for failure to pay their premium? It seems obvious to me. I'm not sure what someone with clout like say a State Attorney General would say about it.

I stand with you on this and will disagree with what Jd said . Outside a very few carriers like trans , americo etc I've personally nor any agent I've ever known seen a carrier rescind a non death claim policy in the first 2 yrs . In other words underwrite after issue in the first 2 yrs . Jd has stated all these carriers have mib plan f yet I've not seen a carrier rescind coverage in first 24 months outside those few . There was rumblings cica with rx now would do the same but I've not seen or heard of it as of yet

 

[jdeasy]

I stand with you on this and will disagree with what Jd said . Outside a very few carriers like trans , americo etc I've personally nor any agent I've ever known seen a carrier rescind a non death claim policy in the first 2 yrs . In other words underwrite after issue in the first 2 yrs . Jd has stated all these carriers have mib plan f yet I've not seen a carrier rescind coverage in first 24 months outside those few . There was rumblings cica with rx now would do the same but I've not seen or heard of it as of yet

You are both wrong.


Scott knows he's wrong.

You just don't know.

But live in Pollyanna land if you want.

Company men have to have someplace to go.

 

[DonP]

You are both wrong.


Scott knows he's wrong.

You just don't know.

But live in Pollyanna land if you want.

Company men have to have someplace to go.

Maybe I'm wrong . Let's ask Rousemark ,Life hawk , Gollini and Wino blues all been in the business 40-55 yrs and written 10's of thousands of policys . Here ye Here ye please chime in .

 

[hockeyday]

What they have communicated to us is that they have subscribed to a new underwriting system from Milliman that has been available for several years but new to them. This digs much deeper than any system they have used before. They are using it for "Post-Issue Underwriting" and they said the majority of cases they have hits with are Diabetics with amputations and COPD with Oxygen use.

So far the cases that our agents have followed up with have found no one with less than 10-fingers and 10-toes and no one that has ever been on oxygen. They will have to get the details of the recisions from Milliman to find what they are basing the recision on which needs to be done on every case.

It's extra concerning that each one of the affected seniors has a cover letter from the president of KSKJ with their certificate (fraternals don't have policies) that clearly states on it's 1st billet point; This is Whole-Life protection. Your coverage can NEVER be canceled for any reason except for failure to pay your premium.

My opinion of this is very different than what I just read in this thread from JD. I have worked with many insurance carriers over the past 30-years and I have never seen a single one of them do anything like this. Everyone knows that all simplified issue life insurance will be heavily screened when a death occurs in the 1st 24-months. And they will very often find a reason to not pay the claim. BUT before they make that decision they verify by gathering data from the medical providers to make certain they have a reason to not pay the claim.

It's true that Oxford rechecks scripts at the 6th month and Americo runs the Plan F system on them throughout the first 24-months. But those companies have only recinded a small portion of policies as far as I know and verify that they have good data before doing it.

What I believe that KSKJ is doing is trusting the Milliman data as reliable enough to cancel the coverage with no further investigation. As we all know Milliman (and all these underwriting systems) have incorrect data fairly often. I have personally had two underwriting declines on Medicare Supplement applications reversed to approvals within the last month simply by having the applicants get strongly worded letters from their doctors that they have NEVER had or been treated for the condition that Milliman is stating they have. This was on a very small sample size of ONE agent that has only had 5-declined Med Sup apps through the whole AEP and two of the five took the effort to prove that Milliman had incorrect information. It's one thing do it this way when people are applying for coverage. It's a whole other level to use data that is often wrong to cancel coverage that has been in force already.

I'm sure the draw to use a system like this appeals to any company's number crunchers. If you could take a huge block of your business and somehow eliminate 10 to 20% of the most likely to die sooner than the rest it would greatly increase profit margins. And any company can gather data 1-year to 23-months after issue and easily figure out which ones you would prefer to back out of. Then you just have to find some way to justify the recision by digging for something. I'm pretty sure amputated toes and oxygen use are not going to be turning up on many of them.

So far KSKJ is only doing the "post issue underwriting" with agents that are no longer writing with them. Many of these agents have the highest persistency of all of their agents but chose not to reappoint with KSKJ when they were invited back. It's a very concerning move by a company that I once trusted and placed a lot of business with for a lot of years.

How ethical is it to take low-income seniors that you underwrote previously using the best data you had and re-analyze them using a completely different, more advanced screening tool after they had trusted you and paid every premium on time believing their welcome letter from the company president that "They have WHOLE-LIFE protection and their coverage CAN NEVER BE CANCELED FOR ANY REASON except for failure to pay their premium? It seems obvious to me. I'm not sure what someone with clout like say a State Attorney General would say about it.

How are we informed that a policy is receded?

 

[hockeyday]

Some agent friends who've gotten a few policy's rescinded said they're rerunning Rx checks with their new Rx vendor as they missed some rx's that would have cause certain polcy's to be declined .This on policy's within the 2 yr contestable period .I Think its bs when carriers do this .I remember Trans and America did this with mib rechecking the mib within that 2 yr period to rescind policy's .

How far they looking back