Is there an App on the market like the Senior Life App?

[Newby]

I would think the storage facilities are climate controlled. Climate controlled storage facilities are not out of the ordinary. They don't store the caskets in some rusted tin barn on a farm in Indiana...lol.

Perhaps the $3 monthly membership collected by LA is similar to receiving interest on investments, like a hedge against inflation?

Greg, I'm not a "bash everything Greg says" kind of guy. I'm really not. But I would have to think that $3 monthly is going into current operations and cash flow. It's not set up in a trust in an interest bearing account. If it was, they would advertise the shit out of that.

They are not buying caskets today that won't be needed for decades and paying for a huge climate controlled storage warehouse. Yes they have a warehouse with caskets. But it stores what they will sell over the next six months. And I'm sure LA doesn't likely own that. The casket manufacturer does.

 

[theinsuranceman]

You cannot not in any way compare the continuing existence of LA with Settlers.. There is a government regulated contractual agreement in force with an insurance policy. No such thing exists with LA..

OK, I agree with that.

 

[theinsuranceman]

Greg, I'm not a "bash everything Greg says" kind of guy. I'm really not. But I would have to think that $3 monthly is going into current operations and cash flow. It's not set up in a trust in an interest bearing account. If it was, they would advertise the shit out of that.

They are not buying caskets today that won't be needed for decades and paying for a huge climate controlled storage warehouse. Yes they have a warehouse with caskets. But it stores what they will sell over the next six months. And I'm sure LA doesn't likely own that. The casket manufacturer does.

Newby, I always like having discussions with you because you are knowledgeable and professional.
_I'm pretty sure most of the seniors I write today just won't be here decades down the road. Some will (that's where lifetime renewals come in from SL), but most most will have passed.

_As far as an interest bearing account/ investment: When you can buy a casket for say $400 today (google casket wholesale prices) you can easily prepay for the casket now and store it for a long time. Why? Because I buy the casket today at $400, hold it for 20 years and pay for its storage in a climate controlled facility, because at death the family gets the casket by itself for $1500 (that's the price of just the casket if that's all the family wants from LA) which is cheaper than the funeral home's price of maybe $4000+. The family loves that.

The casket is like an investment. You buy a product today for $400 that is resold for $1500! Doesn't matter if you resell your product tomorrow or in 20 years. You are investing $400 and your GUARANTEED return is $1500! Where else can you go and invest $400 in a product that is GUARANTEE to pay you back $1500?! Maybe pay you back $1500 the next day if death happens that quickly?

Using the rule of 72, if inflation is 3% continuously, it would take 72/3 = 24 years for that $400 cost of goods price to be equal to $800. Then take 72/3 again and it takes another 24 years for that $800 to be equal to $1600.So you are correct in that if Ms. Jones lives 48 years then LA would lose $100 on a casket price of $1500 that was promised 48 years ago when she enrolled into LA. So yes, if Ms. Jones lives for 48 years after she enrolls then at that point in time LA would start to lose $.

Google just told me the ave. life expectancy in the U.S. is 78.7 years (male and female combined). So I just don't see how LA can lose $$$, unless I write someone at age 30 or younger.

I believe that Ms. Jones is much much better off having her LA membership rather than not having it.

Plus in 5 years for example, they can start saying that all future enrollees can get their casket, vault, and monument for $4000, not the previous $3500, so as to keep ahead of inflation even further or as an increased profit center.

Guys I enjoyed the discussion but I need to get back to work.

 

[theinsuranceman]

Greg you are drinking somebody's Kool-Ade. I've worked closely with funeral homes all over several states. All of them sell basic caskets for $1200 to $1400 mid price caskets at around $2000. 85% of their funerals will be in those two catagories. When they sell a $3500 casket they think they had a huge day.

Grave liners (unsealed burial vaults) range $800 to $1000 and the commonly used sealed vaults range $1200 to $1500.

Sure there are way higher priced caskets and vaults available. They are used for Michael Jackson and Princess Diana.

In top of that, funeral homes usually have packages where they package services and merchandise together. When people take those they are saving more On the total cost. If people supply their own casket they break up the package and pay the full service prices.

Here's what google says (I know you can't believe everything you read on the internet):
_Caskets retail for $2000 to $10000. (Googling ave. price said $2000+.)
_Vaults (sealed) retail for $900 to $7000.
_Monuments retail for $300 to $12000.
This is today's prices.

 

[rousemark]

Here's what google says (I know you can't believe everything you read on the internet):
_Caskets retail for $2000 to $10000. (Googling ave. price said $2000+.)
_Vaults (sealed) retail for $900 to $7000.
_Monuments retail for $300 to $12000.
This is today's prices.

So there is no immediate savings if a person dies tomorrow...

 

[Newby]

Here's what google says (I know you can't believe everything you read on the internet):
_Caskets retail for $2000 to $10000. (Googling ave. price said $2000+.)
_Vaults (sealed) retail for $900 to $7000.
_Monuments retail for $300 to $12000.
This is today's prices.

Google will tell you that insurance agents make around $60,000 too. When we all know the real answer is all over the place.

You would struggle to find a funeral home that doesn't offer a casket in the $800 range. Their average casket sale is in the $2000 range that can all sell you a Promethian for around $20,000 if you really want that.

Vaults are optional. Some cemeteries don't require an outer burial container at all. Of those that do they never require a sealed vault. A concrete grave liner is the most commonly used option. That's the same thing that's used at VA cemeteries like Arlington. They can be purchased as low as $500 and average around $850.

Sealed burial vaults are an optional upsale from a grave liner. Of those who choose to upgrade to a sealed vault the vast majority by a Wilbert Monticello or it's equivalent. Most funeral homes are going to retail that for $1200. And regardless of who supplies the vault you are going to pay around $350 for delivery and installation of the vault.

Monuments are all over the board. People can spend as much or as little as they want on those. But if people don't buy those from a local monument dealer they will need to pay a lot of money for a local dealer to recieve and install it. It's not like a casket where it can just be shipped and received.

 

[theinsuranceman]

So there is no immediate savings if a person dies tomorrow...

Depends on what the local funeral homes are charging. Come on Rouse, put on your thinking cap...lol.

 

[LostDollar]

How does that stack up against a cremation?
What does a low end urn cost? and if buried, do those require the external lining as well?

 

[rousemark]

Depends on what the local funeral homes are charging. Come on Rouse, put on your thinking cap...lol.

I have.. I posted what a local funeral what a local funeral home charges.. In fact, in my county, the GPL is even less. If I can get the same products from my funeral home for $3200 then I know buying it from LA for $3500 is not saving me money..

 

[Newby]

How does that stack up against a cremation?
What does a low end urn cost? and if buried, do those require the external lining as well?

You never have to buy an urn. Legally the final disposition of the body is it the crematory. Once the body is cremated and turned into cremains and those cremains are turned over to the correct family member. There are no more legal requirements for anybody for those cremains. The family can scatter them in the wind they can stick them in an empty Folgers coffee can, they can flush them down the toilet if they want to.

The only people who buy urns are people who choose to buy urns.

If they are going to bury the cremains in a cemetery space they may be required to buy a container to put the cremains in that is suitable for burial. Unless they choose to buy something elaborate they're going to generally spend around $250 on that. Many other cemeteries won't even require that though. And of course any honorably discharged veteran (and their spouse) can get their burial containers at no cost if they use a veteran's cemetery.