Making Individual Health Insurance Illegal

[Guest]

Why even ask Al3 any question?

My answer is that Al3 is literate and well-educated and is old enough to have seen some history (i.e. the formation of Medicare) that many of you have only read about.

I don't see any answers other than the racist remarks made towards the southerners

"Southerners" are not a race. I made pejorative comments about many who live in that part of the country, especially their parents and grandparents, and my comments were insulting, but hardly racist.

that enslaved his family.
News flash Al3 your family sold your ancestors into slavery!

I have no idea what you are talking about, but that happens often to me on this board, given the general education level coupled with the inability of so many here to express themselves via the written word.

My family ancestors were sent into slavery mostly by the Germans along with some Poles and Russians. It was called "The Final Solution." You can read about it.

It had nothing to do with me or anyone else that lives in the south today!

Well, maybe not, but if you stay and read this board long enough you will see how homophobic, xenophobic so many agents, most of them from the South, are. My theory is that these guys just can't "get over" that a black guy is President. We saw the same thing in the late 50s after the Supreme Court ruled in Brown Vs. Board of Education which overturned earlier rulings going back to Plessy v. Ferguson in 1896, by declaring that state laws that established separate public schools for black and white students denied black children equal educational opportunities. I was only 7 years old when that decision was handed down, but I remember how joyful my (liberal) parents were about it. I've lived through some history and socio-cultural changes that you can only read about.

You might be a "progressive" (although I doubt it) so let me ask one question: Who's your granddaddy? Is anyone in your family in their 70s and 80s? If so, tell me they didn't just "go along" with how things were when they grew up in the South.

 

[Winter_123]

Is anyone in your family in their 70s and 80s? If so, tell me they didn't just "go along" with how things were when they grew up in the South.

You show pictures of your alleged ancestors being shot and thrown in graves. Then you piss on American men from the south who might be in their 70's and 80's. Gee, I wonder who might have participated just a little in stopping Hitler.

DUH!

 

[somarco]

When you leave a company you take your policy with you, no COBRA needed. (Even better, let's eliminate employer sponsored coverage altogether.)

Employer group plans are guaranteed issue. If you eliminate group plans what do you do with the uninsurable?

Everyone in the state goes into the same policy form, thus eliminating the "blocking" of business that companies get away with.

In other words, community rating.

A few states impose community rating. Show me where this has worked.

No first dollar coverage. All policies would have a minimum deductible of $2000.

In agreement here, except make it $5,000.

 

[JustinUpright]

Just once... only once... just for twenty minutes I wish one of you selfish, greedy, show-me-the-money health agents could talk with someone who lost their job because the company folded and can't afford HIPAA and who has cancer. They are going to lose their life savings and their home. I can hear you Southern crackers now. "Wha, its jest too baid, but mah gais is itz gahds will. We cain't haiv the govment takin' caeah of ever-one nah can we? They's socialism, boy an thaits not wat merica was built on. If they dah, well it ain't ma fault."

Al I didn't take the Southern part as being racist....But Cracker is and I don't think you were talking about the saltines either. I don't see any one else using slang for a race.

Literate? I don't think name calling and whining about someones background is the proper way to argue your point.

And I don't care what race the President is. I don't want our country to become a socialist nation. I can tell you now once we head down that road your freedom of speech here will go with it.

 

[Guest]

And I don't care what race the President is. I don't want our country to become a socialist nation. I can tell you now once we head down that road your freedom of speech here will go with it.

How do you define socialism, and explain to me why we don't have it now?

I honestly don't see the USA as an less socialist than France, England, Germany, or Japan.

Are we? In what way(s)?

Al

 

[Ron Van D]

Bob, thanks for your feedback.

Employer group plans are guaranteed issue. If you eliminate group plans what do you do with the uninsurable?

In reading John's posts it seems that Maryland has a good setup. Am I wrong or would it be good for the other states to duplicate that system?

In other words, community rating.

A few states impose community rating. Show me where this has worked.

No. Community rating, where everyone pays the same rate regardless of age, sex, health, is not what I'm talking about.

Let me more clearly define what I would like to see.
A carrier sells plan A for a year or so, then comes out with "new and improved". All new sales are made in plan B and the healthy ones leave plan A at renewal. Now the carrier stops selling B and goes to new and improved C. Again sales are all in C and healthy people leave A and B for the better rates and coverages of C. After this goes on for a while the only ones left in A are the uninsurables that can't leave. The carrier takes plan A to the state commissioner and says that they need a huge rate increase on plan A because of all the claims by the unhealthy ones that are left. Plan A is now in the "death spiral" where people will soon be unable to afford the premiums in that plan and will drop their coverage.

In contrast, when Unicare came to Indiana they started out with a plan that was unsustainable. They made the decision to stop selling that plan. They didn't leave anyone in that plan. Everyone got moved into the new plan. Six years later, when I put a client in the new plan, they were paying the same rate as the person of the same age, sex, territory, and health condition who had been in the plan from the beginning. You always have healthy dollars coming in to offset the unhealthy members.

There are still rating territories such as Indianapolis is one rate, Evansville is another, and Pendleton is another, based on local costs.

This is the way P&C is done. The auto I write today is in the same block of business as the auto I wrote 6 years ago.

In agreement here, except make it $5,000.

 

[somarco]

You can't compare P&C to health. Not the same animal and not even close.

Auto is typically short tail claims but health claims, when significant, are long tail claims. You usually don't have "chronic" bad drivers and if you do, they are non-renewed.

Can't do that in the health biz.

Every few years or so carriers come out with new plans, lower rates and lesser benefits. My guess is the plans you sell in auto today are the same (benefits) as you did 6 years ago.

Due to medical care inflation and sickies that just won't die a health carrier can't keep floating those folks on the backs of new people forever. They have to support a good portion of the risk they pose.

Unicare is Blue Cross/Anthem/Wellpoint. They can damn well do almost anything they want. Other carriers aren't in the same position.

Hard to say if MD's plan works as well as it appears. You don't know how much of it is subsidized with taxpayer money. On the surface, it looks like a decent plan for the money but any time you see something that doesn't add up you have to ask yourself where the money is coming from.

It isn't self supporting on premiums alone.

 

[Winter_123]

How do you define socialism, and explain to me why we don't have it now?

I honestly don't see the USA as an less socialist than France, England, Germany, or Japan.

Are we? In what way(s)?

Al

That is an argument tailor-made for Joe Biden.

"People shouldn't be so concerned that Barack is going to turn this into a socialist nation. We are already a Socialist country."

I can see it all now.

Good old Joe. Just a heartbeat away.

 

[usa-vn]

Originally Posted by JustinUpright
And I don't care what race the President is. I don't want our country to become a socialist nation. I can tell you now once we head down that road your freedom of speech here will go with it.

My respond may not have much relate to insurance business and my language skill may not be as good as many of you but I love this country for the rights that many of us take for grant, the 1st and 2nd Amendment. I grew up in Vietnam, a socialist society (country). First and foremost, do as the state tell you to do. Back in 1992, I was drafted at the age of 16. At that time, the Soviet Union had just collapsed and there was no war going on in Vietnam then. Comparing the Selective Service Register at 18 in the U.S and a “draft” at age 16 and at the time there was not a war going-on in Vietnam, I think many of us can see the different. I was among of a few lucky ones who got out of a socialist country.

As regarding to the way government/state conduct their business, once they tell you what to do. You are left with only two choices, Obey or Disobey? If you don’t do what were told, they would send local police to your home and chase you like a criminal and believe me, they will call you out in the community and make sure everyone in your community be-aware of your crime. You want lawyer? You want a trial? In 1992, I don’t think if there was any legitimate lawyer around in SaiGon city. Today, they would send thugs and local and central security to get you if you don’t do what were told. If they want your land or home, they would come & evict you. If you are tough enough, such individuals are former Vi-Xi, former hardline Vi-Xi, you can find your way or pay your way to a lawyer or the court but as hopeless as it is, the court is just for show. They (the state) really are the law of the land.

With 2nd amendment, the right to keep & bear arm, at least I can shoot anybody come and get me. I will have to fight with the police, law enforcements and in the end will die with them. Talking serious matter such as life & death, many of us will give up our rights and follow what were told by the government.

Freedom of speech and freedom presses? The Vietnamese communist party has been running the country for more than 60 years in the North and more than 30 years in South Vietnam and in the current. If anyone has anything say that contradict or smeer or even with good intention, and if the local or the central office mis-understanding him/her, he/she will be in serious trouble with the law and law enforcements. These are one of the few reasons, why many of us immigrants are so quiet or being depicted as shy or lack of language skill even though they are no longer living there. In the native country, if anyone has anything to say about anything, it is better not having anything relate to the laws or the ruling class, the congress, the government. You can only say good things about or praise the government, politicians, and if you smart you can become a pro-government journalist and get paid.

There are about 600 mass-media agencies in Vietnam, none of them dare to say any different than what were told by the government. Most Vietnamese don’t trust their government & government officials and worse they don’t even know how to trust among each other. Most of them will reason that they have no choice but to trust or to accept the way the state or the government are. It is a direct resulted of a brain-washed culture in the main stream media, pro-government run media programs for a long period of time in those countries. All media allow to say how great and how genius our government and government programs are and they can be best beneficial to society in broader sense. Media is one example of many government run programs in Vietnam.

Original posted by Al3:
How do you define socialism, and explain to me why we don't have it now?
I honestly don't see the USA as an less socialist than France, England, Germany, or Japan.
Are we? In what way(s)?

I don’t know much of Japan, France etc … but I know much about Vietnamese socialist’s economy. The total labor force in Vietnam is about 50 million workers. The state employs only about 3 million workers. There is about 10 millions work for foreign investments/companies which totaled about 30 billions USD in foreign investment and contributed to about half of the Gross Domestic Production (GDP) of Vietnam. The GDP of Vietnam in 2007 was 70 billions USD. What was the GDP of the USA in 2007? The rest I don’t know what to tell you.

An average Vietnamese will be happy if they have a job and can work for couple USD/day. They will get pay as they go. Average Vietnamese do not have or can even afford any social programs/benefit such as unemployment insurance, healthcare, social security and the like programs. Recently, I heard that there are social paid programs such as social insurance (they literally call it social insurance), worker insurance etc, but I doubt that they can claim and get pay for what being promised. Can anyone tell me what is a “social insurance”? Can anyone tell me how many are employed by our U.S. government and how many of us are not being employed by our government?

 

[mclark72]

Why make fun of Southern people? I don't know anyone that talks that way...lol
Really, it did nothing to help your point.

I believe that if I moved to several different states my premium would double. You guys who write outside CA, tell me what a $4,000 deduct/OOP max HSA plan for a 61 year old male costs. John, what would I pay in MD? (I don't have Norvax or Quotit that would let me do this research myself... I assume they let subscribers rate any state?)

John, I know you were serious and not antagonistic. And I appreciate your POV. AND IF what you say comes to pass, it would not be a good thing... but MAYBE THAT is what those of you (not John) who love the current system and hate reform should WISH for.

If you can't block reform so as to preserve your income, perhaps you should quietly support a reform plan that you "know" will fail.

I an afford $900 a month for health insurance. Would I pay it? No. I would either self-insure or I would get a limited benefit plan (mini-med) and take my chances until I got Medicare in a few years. (And folks, Medicare is NOT going to go away. There WILL be affordable health care for older people... although they might raise the age for YOU guys to 70 which I would not support.)

John, I keep coming back to this point and you never answer it. If the private sector can do a better job of controlling the cost of health care and thus the costs to insure people against that cost, why do we have to reform the system?

You guys stick to your worn-out and untrue mantra that 90% of those without insurance are illegal immigrants or irresponsible and THEY are the major utilizers of services such that the rest of us must pay through the nose... or be rationed out via underwriting.

Just once... only once... just for twenty minutes I wish one of you selfish, greedy, show-me-the-money health agents could talk with someone who lost their job because the company folded and can't afford HIPAA and who has cancer. They are going to lose their life savings and their home. I can hear you Southern crackers now. "Wha, its jest too baid, but mah gais is itz gahds will. We cain't haiv the govment takin' caeah of ever-one nah can we? They's socialism, boy an thaits not wat merica was built on. If they dah, well it ain't ma fault."

So many of you claim you are in this business to help people. No you're not. Man, how many times a day do you guys tell some newbie on this board about "doing the right thing by the customer and not worry about the comp." What a total crock.

Would ONE of you support a plan where you could not make more than a limited amount, like our own Dave F. does with HIPAA in CA for our Frank S. and Rick B. do with Med Supps?

Why are these guys the best of the best on this board? Because they act, they don't re-act. They found a niche, learned how to best market and sell it, and they do (I assume) quite well (Rick B. lives in a very, very nice area... and if the quake comes he will have beach-front property... but Dave F will own his own island floating toward Hawaii!)

Who is for reform and who is against it? Follow the money.

Al