NML, Mass Mutual or Guardian?? Help Please....

[DRJCBPA]

I was in the business for 15 years and did very well (6 figures ++ every year) I left to go into a different field, but now I am going back to the business. I was a top producer in life, DI, and investment products-- earned my CFP and worked hard. The work paid off as it always does. Now, I am a bit wiser and interviewing with NML, Guardian, and Mass Mutual-- in lieu of just drinking the happy juice from one company....okay here is the question:

Which one of those companies, in your opinion and experience writes the life contract (permanent whole life) that is clearly superior to the others? Which one writes the most competitive DI product for the physician and professional market? I know they are all close, but only one can be the best for the client. I understand that they may only be a few dollars apart at the end of 10 or 20 years and I understand that my expertise and relationship will more than make up for the few dollars either way but I am curious what you folks in the field think.

Also, which is the better company for the career agent to work for? Compensation, support, training, benefits, etc.? I will likely start in the agency for a month or so during training then go detatched because that is the way I am most comfortable and although I will be a career agent with one company I know there are times when I must "write away" from the company for the best interest of the client-- however, I want to do that as little as possible. My market was pretty general with docs, attorneys, business, and it was not and will not be a problem for me to sit across a kitchen table to help a young family get started. And finally, Which of these companies has the best reputation in the marketplace (recognition and branding)? I know this is a long one and maybe it should be three posts. Thus far it seems that NML has a pretty standard deal and the G.A. (managing partner) holds the reigns tightly to the Granum System (which I know and understand) It also seems that NML is not so generous with the agents. Mass Mutual seems to have a much more open mind and appears to be more generous, and Guardian-- well it is hard for me to tell. I spoke to a young buck who was very professional, but talked more about the superiority of the Guardian culture than the product or the agent compensation. Okay, maybe I win an award for the longest post for a newbie to this forum, but if all goes well, I hope to be able to give back to it as well. Thanks for your time and info.

 

[DHK]

Here's my opinion: For a disability product for the physician & professional market? Guardian. Just review the policy definitions of disability and their coverages for helping the policy holder return to work.

Who writes the best whole life contract? It doesn't matter.

Which is the better company for the career agent? Wrong question.

Which company has the best reputation? Wrong question.

The better question is to find the best LOCAL AGENCY. Company is nothing. Agency could be EVERYTHING.

BTW, your statement of "only one can be the best for the client" is a misleading statement. The BEST coverage for the client is what the client will BUY, not necessarily what you think you should recommend. Some coverage is better than none. More coverage is better than less.

So, based on the above, with the market you're looking for, I'd probably pick Guardian. Why? "Best" DI coverage for professionals & doctors and so you can get "contract credit" for those policies.

 

[xrac]

DHK is correct the the Local Agency should be the deciding factor. On the companies this is my opinion:

Disability product for the physician & professional market? Guardian hands down.

Best whole life contract? It doesn't matter.

Better company for the career agent? Compensation wise I think it is Guardian. My choice would be MM or Guardian depending upon the local office.

Which company has the best reputation? Probably MM or NWML.

You didn't ask this question but the best company for financial products other than insurance working through the broker dealer? Probably MM, Guardian's broker/dealer PAS (Park Avenue Securities) has a reputation for sucking.

So, based on the above, with the market you're looking for, I'd agree with DHK that I would probably pick Guardian but would also look at MM. NWML would not be an option to me.

 

[CFP83]

Very thoughtful and pertinent questions for a new poster. Your experience in the industry is apparent and i think you're on the right line of thinking.

I do however agree with the others that you need to make a "minor tweak" to the perspective you are taking....you will be well served to put greater concentration on the local agency and the General Agent that you feel will be your best Business Partner (GA's at Northwestern however will not see themself as your business partner, your no more than a perspective sales employee in their mind) Company choice is important, and although all three are "best of breed" within the industry, there are major compensation and cultural differences between the two.

Being a former NML agent, along with being currently associated with Mass Mutual as my B/D, you may want to search my past posts as I have responded to your above questions many times in various conversations on the forum involving Northwestern Mutual,Mass and Guardian. Another thought/piece of advice, use the seach function to search for threads that have these three companies in the title. There are currently several recent threads with many replies regarding these companies.

After leaving NML, I did what I like to call my "12 month case study" on the life insurance industry. I had sat down with three different Guardian GA's, two Mass Mutual GA's, two New York life GA's, and a GA for Penn Mutual.

In the end, I selected a contract with Mass Mutual, and established very attractive (based on production history) direct broker contracts with Penn Mutual and Guardian.

The Mass Mutual culture is the most progressive thinking. My particular general agent maybe one of the most progressive in the country (one of the reasons I chose him and Mass). Mass in general though is currently encouraging advisors to get more involved in fee-based financial planning, "managed money" investment accounts for your clients, and for bigger producers, encouraging you to brand yourself with your own identity for your practice...ie logo, website, marketing materials ect. Yes, all the above is with the Mass career agent contract. You won't see this type of thinking at Northwestern and Guardian. The compensation for the Mass contract ranks a close second to Guardian. Northwestern is by far the lowest of the three.

Guardian's B/D Park Avenue Securities is a bit questionable. Many of the GA's throughout the country are old-school "insurance slingers" from the good ole days. One of Guardians largest GA's in the country actually caps their investment payout grid at 65%, regardless of how much investment business you produce!! really shows what he wants his reps to focus "hey just go sell some more insurance and shut about those crazy, unimportant investments". Now some of the pro's: Guardians DI is the best in the industry and I currently sell a good bit of it. If you never leave Guardian the renewals are best in the industry.

Hope some of this has been helpful
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Probably MM, Guardian's broker/dealer PAS (Park Avenue Securities) has a reputation for sucking.

that is hilarious....true and hilarious

 

[DRJCBPA]

Very helpful thank you. Wonder how did you explain the change to your NML clients. I know they buy the advisor more than the product, but I'm just curious. I will have a similar issue to deal with.
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Disability product for the physician & professional market? Guardian hands down.

Completely agree...

Best whole life contract? It doesn't matter.

Okay, I know that all three NML, Guardian, and Mass are within dollars of each other... is that what you mean?
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Okay, I stand rebuked... it has been a while, now what would you look for in a G.A. I've worked with five... mandatory retirement took them quite early.(IMO) The younger ones who took over from the established guys were mostly uncaring about veterans except for enforcing rookie rules.

 

[xrac]

.....Best whole life contract? It doesn't matter.

Okay, I know that all three NML, Guardian, and Mass are within dollars of each other... is that what you mean?.......

They all have good solid whole life products. Which one is the best can fluctuate depending upon what one is looking for and dividends in any given year. Guardian is direct recognition and I think NWML is also. MM is non-direct recognition.

 

[CFP83]

Very helpful thank you. Wonder how did you explain the change to your NML clients. I know they buy the advisor more than the product, but I'm just curious. I will have a similar issue to deal with.

Good question. It has been a very easy conversation to have with my clients. I have simply shared my heart with them and let them know why I needed to leave Northwestern so that I could be the best advisor for them...those reasons can be summarized as:

1. To offer/have access other products and service outside of NML's world. I now have access to virtually every product under the sun to help solve a clients needs. A good example of this....Guardians's DI is superior to NML's and I wanted to establish a serious relationship with them. Penn Mutual has a UL and IUL product that offer clients something I couldn't come close to with any NML products I had access to. Mass Mutual's Long Term Care product was clearly better priced and a overall better solution for my clients. don't get me wrong, I was doing around 250k a year of life premium through NML at year 5.....however I wasn't a "kool-aid drinker". I really don't care too much about any company...as an advisor I simply use companies to accomplish my clients goals....which leads me to
2. My loyalty is only to my clients and doing the absolute best thing for them. I was simply unable to do this every single time at NML. because of the way the NML career contract reads YOU ARE REQUIRED TO SHOW NML FIRST BEFORE ANY OTHER COMPANIES PRODUCTS, THIS IS EVERY SINGLE TIME NO EXCEPTIONS.
3. To be able to offer a higher level of relationship for higher net worth clients. Fee-based planning at NML was so limited and restrictive & NML's culture makes it very difficult to offer fee-based plans and wrap accounts
4. Office space was a major problem, NML does not let you office outside of one of their offices. NML has now taken the stance that regardless of how big of a producer you are, it is prohibited to have your own office outside of the general agency or a district agency office. My district agency office was already full and had no more room for me to grow into. Therefore I was told "make due" with the room I had.....seriously that's exactly what my NML GA said!

So in your situation, since you stated that you're in a similar situation I would focus in on what value you'll be able to provide that you could not before.

 

[BNTRS]

To step in, in full agreement with the DI discussion, Berkshire/Guardian without any hesitation. Also, they are hugely well known in the medical field for this reason. If dealing with any business owners, Guardian has maintained a decent reputation due to it's huge block of group business. However they are not a household name like Northwestern Mutual or even Massmutual.

and for bigger producers, encouraging you to brand yourself with your own identity for your practice...ie logo, website, marketing materials ect. Yes, all the above is with the Mass career agent contract. You won't see this type of thinking at Northwestern and Guardian.

I'm going to disagree with this, as Guardian has appeared to dislike having it's name at the forefront of it's agencies, they strongly encourage the use of DBAs and the like.

However CFP83 is spot on with Mass being much more investment friendly, and having a much better B/D. I'm also a bigger fan of Mass's marketing materials.

As for WL contracts, NML is not an all star in any regard in my experience.

Guardian tends to be more flexible with their products.

Mass's high early cash value WL product doesn't have the higher minimum premium requirements that Guardian and NML have so it works nicely on smaller cases.

My advice, if you are looking at investment business as well, look at Guardian's Financial Professional (FP) contract, that way you get their products, a career contract, but you don't have to deal with their crappy B/D, and that bit of information is certainly no rumor.

 

[David C]

Excellent thread. Good useful info. Thanks.

 

[DRJCBPA]

Help here please: What is Guardian FP deal? Can I hold a Mass Mutual contract and the FP contract with Guardian? The older I get the more the pension from the company becomes important. I figure after 15 years of production as a younger man with smaller premiums-- I ended up with almost 2000 a month for a db retirement plan. Not bad compared to the 167 per month the Teacher's Union gave me.... So I like the idea of looking longer term. I figure I have a good 15 years of solid production in me before its time to slow down. Mass tells me they also allow me to "sell" my book to another agent or to transfer to a family member who is up and coming.
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I mean Mass Mutual Agent's Contract, not a brokerage deal.