Primerica

[toolbelt]

It's not just out of pocket costs from the agent. It's whomever is doing the compliance oversight, entering the U-4 info, scheduling and opening testing windows, etc. It's not just paying for an exam and study materials.

Of course, I'm primarily talking about securities licensing, not insurance as anyone can apply for and get an insurance license.

And why do they do this? Because there's the potential and promise of a return on that effort.

There's also money in it for those on the force who run security course training as their side or main line of business under a private label.

 

[Cornelius]

It may vary. I know offices I have been a part of we learn about other products. We have to as some of the people we meet w have existing policies. & we have seen some ugly ones.
So we study actual policy copies that we have obtained from clients. W names & the like blanked out.

So yeah it can take awhile to become fully familiar w them. But we do learn what to look for. Both w other term policies or different cash value policies.

& we run into people who have been sold a cash value policy as a college savings fund for their kid. I ran into that years ago w a family that then had an 18 year old. As well as 2 much younger children. As I recall, the cash value of the policy for the 18 year old was something like 2k.

or people who were sold cash value polices as a retirement plan. Some didn’t even realize they had been sold a life ins policy w surrender charges. Some of them really ugly like 10 years or more.

& we learn how to look at the tables of cash values that often diminish over time to about zero by around 65.

& how to look for the death benefit options. Mostly they don’t get the cash value. Which surprises them.

so brand new agents don’t know as much. But we have to learn as we encounter people who have other types of policies.

But w our structure an agent should never be on their own. They can work w their upline to gain help in understanding polices.

& we learn things about them that it seems that sometimes the agents who sold the polices didn’t understand. Which is not surprising since so many have such convoluted language.

we learn how to compare different kinds of cash value policies w Buy Term Invest the Difference. #s don’t lie. Sometimes they would come out ahead just putting the difference under a mattress or something. Which of course is NOT what we recommend.

left for greener pastures? Hah. Betraying the ideals we teach. Including always do what is right for the client!

Do what is right for the client. Defined by whom? The consideration isn't about doing what's right for the client. How can that be considered if being a captive independent contractor?

When considering client needs in general what can you do that others can't do? There's a separation that many don't consider because they get blinded by the hype.

There's the company/products side and then there's the business side which is basically commissions and contract.

As an independent contractor (Not an employee) how does the business side compare to other opportunities available with current licenses?

Should a 1099 person have extreme loyalty to any company? As a 1099 agents can come and go as they please. The question becomes how and under what terms can they exit. That's the business side. If the agent doesn't know legal will let them know.

Just one more consideration beyond all the hype in general. No matter the company high earners at high levels have left for whatever reason. Nothing personal. At the end of the day it's personal.

 

[LostDollar]

I'll take Ed Slott, CPA's advice over the substandard training at Primerica any day. (See my signature for a link.)

This is an off topic question, but it is a place where I could find you mentioning Ed Slott. I couldn't find the thread where you mentioned him and the advisory group.

I was just listening to a Feb-Mar 2020 interview between him and Barber Wealth management.

Does he still tell the members of his Elite Advisory Group that a person over 70 1/2 should not make Traditional IRA Contributions -- "Don't do it, it's a Trap!" saying that as a Universal Statement of Truth?

 

[DHK]

This is an off topic question, but it is a place where I could find you mentioning Ed Slott. I couldn't find the thread where you mentioned him and the advisory group.

I was just listening to a Feb-Mar 2020 interview between him and Barber Wealth management.

Does he still tell the members of his Elite Advisory Group that a person over 70 1/2 should not make Traditional IRA Contributions -- "Don't do it, it's a Trap!" saying that as a Universal Statement of Truth?

I'm not in his Elite IRA Group, but this is his most recent article on July 24, 2023:

https://www.investmentnews.com/stop-contributing-to-iras-and-401ks-240215

 

[LostDollar]

I'm not in his Elite IRA Group, but this is his most recent article on July 24, 2023:

https://www.investmentnews.com/stop-contributing-to-iras-and-401ks-240215

Thanks for the link.

All I can say is WOW! That article takes such an arrogant tone.

It seems to me that one of the first things a CPA doing front office tax work with a client should do is to learn to listen to the client's SPECIFIC situation and not make generalizations where the tax laws do not specifically require them.

If there are general rules which will apply to many people they should be presented as general rules, appropriate for many situations, but it is arrogant and inappropriate (in my opinion) to say that NOBODY in the US should make Traditional IRA contributions after their RMD date just because SOME people in the US should not do so because it will have an adverse effect on their future income taxes.

He is also not recognizing that sometimes a person's or couple's overall financial situation requires a bit broader view than only current vs future taxability of IRA contributions. Such as maybe having ACA health insurance in a given year rather than a Short Term Medical Plan, or how to fully fund a tax year's HSA contribution.

I am speaking from 3 years of direct personal experience with those issues. In 2020, 2021, and 2022 I made post RMD age Spousal Traditional IRA contributions, and had my wife make Traditional IRA contributions as well. In each of those years we got enough of an ACA premium refund to fund most of the following year's HSA contribution.

 

[DHK]

All I can say is WOW! That article takes such an arrogant tone.

And your assumptions are why you are your own best advisor and probably shouldn't ever work with an agent or advisor.

 

[LostDollar]

And your assumptions are why you are your own best advisor and probably shouldn't ever work with an agent or advisor.

In another Barber wealth management interview I watched today, I watched a CPA guest try to tell Mr Barber exactly that (that each taxpayer has a specific set of circumstances that should be used for their tax planning) about an issue and I then watched him stomp her down and present his own "it should be done this way all the time" statement. I don't know why he even bothered to have her as a guest.

 

[LostDollar]

And your assumptions are why you are your own best advisor and probably shouldn't ever work with an agent or advisor.

My family and I are blessed by the new IRA contribution tax rules and the flexibility they have provided us for tax planning and preparation, medical insurance coverage and future payment of Medicare Part B premiums.

We have a better future retirement picture today than we would have if those rules were not in place.

Mr. Slott is saying we should not have those things because they do not fit his view of the one proper way tax planning should be handled.

 

[DHK]

I cannot comment without having done a full fact-find... but I am not in favor of deferring taxes indefinitely considering the effect of the national debt and the direction taxes must eventually go.

If you want to continue to defer to an unknown tax not knowing how much you still owe on your total IRA balance, that's your business.

Ed Slott, CPA is all about helping people see the hidden taxes lurking in their retirement plans... but since you're okay with your situation (or you probably don't have in excess of $500,000 in IRA funds), that's probably why it works out for you. (I say $500,000 because of the math I've done on these strategies and I think that's a good breakpoint for when these strategies can make a meaningful difference... and when they won't.)

 

[LostDollar]

I cannot comment without having done a full fact-find... but I am not in favor of deferring taxes indefinitely considering the effect of the national debt and the direction taxes must eventually go.

If you want to continue to defer to an unknown tax not knowing how much you still owe on your total IRA balance, that's your business.

Ed Slott, CPA is all about helping people see the hidden taxes lurking in their retirement plans... but since you're okay with your situation (or you probably don't have in excess of $500,000 in IRA funds), that's probably why it works out for you. (I say $500,000 because of the math I've done on these strategies and I think that's a good breakpoint for when these strategies can make a meaningful difference... and when they won't.)

(I have never owned $500,000 in my life.)