PROGRESSIVE

[VolAgent]

When our underwriters and actuaries did their diligence for our home program, the data absolutely suggested a correlation. That being said, we omit it because the type of risk we go after tends to have owners on the less than ideal side of the bell curve.

Not that I doubt you, but I would love to see it. I hear the same from carrier reps, but no one ever want to show it.

 

[Web320]

Not that I doubt you, but I would love to see it. I hear the same from carrier reps, but no one ever want to show it.

I wish I could provide something concrete for you and It's not that I don't want to...but that I can't (we don't own the data).

 

[VolAgent]

I wish I could provide something concrete for you and It's not that I don't want to...but that I can't (we don't own the data).

I'm sure that is the case and I believe you. Still isn't much different than. "Trust me."

I think the industry better find a different answer before someone decides to stop accepting that.

 

[djs]

Lots of material available that shows a solid actuarial relationship between the 2. To be honest, they are very, very, very, very dry reading.

On little excerpt sort of speaks to it all:

• For both personal auto liability and homeowners, the difference in claims experience by credit score was substantial. Typically, the claim experience for the 10 percent of policyholders with the worst credit scores was 1.5 to 2 times greater than that of the 10 percent of policyholders with the best credit scores. The magnitude of the variation noted in the earlier report remains unchanged even after considering other commonly used rating variables.

Now, for any given individual, this is meaningless, but insurance companies insure 'lots of individuals' which is the only way it works.

If it wasn't actuarially provable, then more states would prohibit the use of this type of data.

You can read more at:
TDI Credit Scoring Study Synopsis

which is a Texas study on this very question. The page is mostly a summary of the reports that are linked at the bottom.

Need more? Lots of other stuff, just google.

Now, don't get me started about why tickets affect your rates? Seriously? The insurance company didn't pay a dime for my ticket.....

 

[Heather]

A carrier rep told me that persons with poor credit are thus poor and they may have to delay things like snow tires or new brakes thus causing accidents. They may also have to delay loose shingles being repaired and use buckets under leaky sinks exposing home to water damage and mold. Sounds plausible, but if I could offer them a better rate my thinking is they could better afford their insurance. I have poor customers that faithfully pay me every month and have never had a claim. Personally after four years with progressive perfect payment history and no claims I think the regional carriers should welcome them.

 

[VolAgent]

A carrier rep told me that persons with poor credit are thus poor and they may have to delay things like snow tires or new brakes thus causing accidents. They may also have to delay loose shingles being repaired and use buckets under leaky sinks exposing home to water damage and mold. Sounds plausible, but if I could offer them a better rate my thinking is they could better afford their insurance. I have poor customers that faithfully pay me every month and have never had a claim. Personally after four years with progressive perfect payment history and no claims I think the regional carriers should welcome them.

You're poor, so we are going to do everything we can to keep you that way.

I'm sure that is not the intention, but it definitely feels that way at times.

 

[daisyq]

I'm not in the p&c market, but wanted to share my experience with this very unethical company. One year I was in two different car accidents, caused by Progressive drivers. The way they train their claims adjusters is truly amazing! Both adjusters treated me like I was a common criminal.
In both claims I didn't get an attorney because I didn't think I would need one. Was I wrong, after several months, I had to get represetation on BOTH claims.
And these were both small claims.

Also, read this article about Glen Beck's producer. His sister was struck and killed and was insured by Progressive. They put this family through hell. This article doesn't mention it, but I remember when I originally heard this story, the judge said it was "unprecedented" that a company would argue against their own insured. This company is scum.

 

[Monti_Ray]

Sure, they have some interesting ad though.

I'm not in the p&c market, but wanted to share my experience with this very unethical company. One year I was in two different car accidents, caused by Progressive drivers. The way they train their claims adjusters is truly amazing! Both adjusters treated me like I was a common criminal.
In both claims I didn't get an attorney because I didn't think I would need one. Was I wrong, after several months, I had to get represetation on BOTH claims.
And these were both small claims.

Also, read this article about Glen Beck's producer. His sister was struck and killed and was insured by Progressive. They put this family through hell. This article doesn't mention it, but I remember when I originally heard this story, the judge said it was "unprecedented" that a company would argue against their own insured. This company is scum.

 

[InsCommentary]

A carrier rep told me that persons with poor credit are thus poor and they may have to delay things like snow tires or new brakes thus causing accidents. They may also have to delay loose shingles being repaired and use buckets under leaky sinks exposing home to water damage and mold. Sounds plausible, but if I could offer them a better rate my thinking is they could better afford their insurance. I have poor customers that faithfully pay me every month and have never had a claim. Personally after four years with progressive perfect payment history and no claims I think the regional carriers should welcome them.

Interesting because carriers tell regulators that there is no correlation between rich/poor and insurance/credit score. The studies that have been conducted indicate a correlation, but correlation is not cause and effect. The big problem with credit scoring is the high combined incidence of bad data and bogus algorithms.

 

[WolfpackAgent]

I'd be interested to see the actual correlation between credit score and income/assets. I have seen poor insurance scores come in with $350K houses, and perfect insurance scores who are coming in to insure a Habitat for Humanity home.