SEC says FIA's are securities!!

This statement is very important and hopefully the insurers will push the SEC to define their position.

<The SEC does not discuss its views on whether there is a distinction between products linked to the performance of separate accounts and products backed by an insurer's general account.>

This statement shows the inherent lack of understanding of the non-existent risk (outside of the surrender charge) of an FIA.

<When a consumer buys an indexed annuity, "the purchaser assumes the risk of an uncertain and fluctuating financial instrument, in exchange for exposure to future, securities-linked returns," officials write. "The value of such an indexed annuity reflects the benefits and risks inherent in the securities market>

The future returns on any annuity are linked to securities returns. I don't think there is an insurer out there who doesn't have bills or bonds in their general fund. So if a traditional annuity return is based on future returns of bonds and bills, where is the distinction from the SEC that a traditional annuity shouldn't be registered.

I think the SEC has open Pandora's box on this one and a big cat fight is about to begin. Clark is on his way out and won't be involved in the fight. The SEC is painting itself into a corner. If they come out and say any return to a companies general fund, that is based on securities, be they bills; bonds; the S&P or whatever will force them to discuss its views on whether there is a distinction between products linked to the performance of separate accounts and products backed by an insurer's general account. If they come out and say there is no distinction an even bigger cat fight will begin. People may start to see that this is really an SEC / FINRA fight for power and not about consumer protection.

As of today I can sell unregistered 401K plans. If the SEC wins there will still be smart people that can get around them. There are a thousand and one ways to do it. So you make a few product changes and marketing changes and you have bypassed this problem.

<"Under these cases, factors that are important to a determination of an annuity's status under Section 3(a)(8) include (1) the allocation of investment risk between insurer and purchaser, and (2) the manner in which the annuity is marketed," officials write.>

This issue will not be settled without a fight:

National Underwriter Life & Health
 
I am 6 & 63 registered, so don't worry, I understand the B/D issues.

Call me crazy, but I still think FIA's should have a much higher level of scrutiny. There really should be some suitability accountability to those who sell them. They should not be able to make outrageous claims on returns.

They are a solid product when you understand them and position them correctly.

Of course, I believe mortgage brokers who sold neg-am loans without properly qualifying the client and proper suitability testing should go to jail, but that's just me. Doesn't matter what the SEC did with the security backing on these.

A fight would be good. I don't really care who sells what, as long as they are doing the right thing for the client.

Dan
 

With all due respect I disagree. I still say that is the justification. As the market slips, the B/Ds are looking for MORE revenue. They want to force RIAs and IARs to do business with them. They want FIA's ran through them. This is bad for investors, bad for advisors, and bad for everyone in America, EXCEPT the B/D home offices, and the FINRA.

There is no regulation or oversight by the SEC and FINRA that cannot be implemented by the state. The key is the states. Most RIAs are registered with the state. State security commissioners are vastly superior to the SEC and FINRA, because they are actual law enforcement agencies. The SEC and FINRA are NOT law enforcement agencies. They do NOT have certified law enforcement officers, who carry badges, guns, with special arrest powers. Only the states have that power. This is why they focus on actual crooks.

FINRA goes after people who haven't even harmed someone but who have fouled up paperwork or broken some technical obscure rule. If you ever sat for the 63, 66, or 65 you will know what I mean about rules. Here is an example:
BrokeAndBroker.com at RRBDLAW.com by Bill Singer, 917-520-2836 :: Lt. Col. Elton Johnson received an 18 Month Suspension for Failing to Supervise. He violated the rules because his business was closed and he was serving his country in Iraq. Only a public outcry caused FINRA to relent.

Here is another example of being regulated by FINRA: BrokeAndBroker.com at RRBDLAW.com by Bill Singer, 917-520-2836 ::

Did you know that FINRA was partnering with AARP? Brokers pan Finra-AARP tie - InvestmentNews

Did you know that FINRA has issues with misconduct among it's own people: BrokeAndBroker.com at RRBDLAW.com by Bill Singer, 917-520-2836 ::

The BD's are losing money: Big wealth teams dump wirehouses to go independent
Big wealth teams dump wirehouses to go independent - InvestmentNews

FINRA wants to bail out the B/D's by going after more turf to regulate. Thus we read: Advisers gear up to battle Treasury. They oppose its plan for FINRA to regulate firms: Advisers gear up to battle Treasury - InvestmentNews

Listen to this: "The regulations governing investment advisers are "less arduous" than those overseeing broker-dealers, a disparity that has led to an "exodus" of some brokers from that side of the business, said John Hurley, managing director with Suasion Resources Inc., a Roseland, N.J.-based consulting firm for financial services companies. "I do think the regulators are looking at this very closely," he said. "This exodus has been a concern, particularly to certain independent broker-dealers," because they don't want to lose more of their reps to the advisory business, Mr. Hurley said......Fix disparate regs that govern broker-dealers and investment advisers, authors suggest - InvestmentNews
 
I agree with you...but currently the life carriers aren't smart enough to sit on unethical managers and sales reps (and they KNOW who they are!) thereby giving everyone the ammo they need.

Take away the ammo and start implementing systems to catch unethical agents. Doesn't the carrier see an annuity written on a 78 year old lady - payments don't begin for 20 years?

Shouldn't that app generate a phone call?
 
Doesn't the carrier see an annuity written on a 78 year old lady - payments don't begin for 20 years?

John,

Please show me that annuity. I don't believe it exists. If it does, I've never seen it. Seeing that you are the annuity expert, I'm sure you can tell us who offers such an animal.
 
Lawsuit Seeks to Prohibit Sale of Insurance Annuities to Senior Citizens - Articles - Financial Planning

not bad....he starts getting paid when he's 115. Is there any way you can explain to me why this was issued without generating a phone call? Payouts at 115 years old?

First of all, the article states it was a "life insurance annuity policy". Can't say I know what that is. If it was truly an annuity, the longest surrender charge annuity that Midland has is 14 years. Secondly, the article also states the beneficiary is getting the $43,000 plus $5,000 in interest. Not bad for 17 months.

The article also mentions an "annuity payment schedule". Most annuity policies have a default listed as an annuity date. Sometimes it's at a certain age and other times it's in a certain number of years. That doesn't mean the annuitant can't get their money prior to that date. Nor does it mean there is a penalty prior to that date. Of course, you are an annuity expert and already knew that, didn't you?

As for why there wouldn't have been a phone call, I can't answer that one other than to say, he likely signed some suitability paperwork and the fact that Midland doesn't have an annuity that restricts payment like that, I can't see where the problem would be. Of course, I'm not a fan of investing someone's entire nest egg into a product with a 14 year surrender charge (regardless of their age).

Maybe the reason there wasn't a phone call is due to the same reason Assurant doesn't call people when they enroll in the RightStart plan. At least with the annuity, the client doesn't go bankrupt if they have a medical issue.
 

Still not the annuity you first mentioned. Allianz is the world's worst in my opinion. Their annuities in the past have been very restrictive, but did not require a person to wait 20 years to start getting their money. They always allowed a client to get either their interest or 10% without any surrender charge. They still don't have a product I would sell. They have improved on some of them, but not to my standards.

Let me know when you find that one that requires someone to wait 20 years before they can touch their money.
 
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