Senior Life Stock Ownership or 3-card Monte?

[theinsuranceman]

LOL. I am not obsessed. I am just more informed than you think. Nice try though.

Greg, I did not want to go here, but you failed to read my post thoroughly and you asked a question. I said Marvin stole my prospects, not my clients. I have also known him to get H.O. to change agents (plural) downline over to his writing number. Don't ask me how he is able to do it, because I do not know the answer to that. If I did not know this for a fact, I would be setting myself up for a lawsuit. Considering you are both RVP's, in different parts of the country, you obviously don't see the same side as those who work side-by-side with him nor as frequently. Would that be fair to say? I have no reason to lie on him. If he is such a great guy, how is it that he can have an office literally overflowing with agents (60+) when I initially got there, and within 1 year not have enough agents to even fill a 10-chair conference table? That says an awful lot about his character. If that is not enough, how about this? When I first got there, the Evans group was number 5 or 6 in the country. He has fallen every year since he's done those things I have accused him of doing. Since I still have business on the books, you know I am privy to the Scoop. His face is nowhere to be found in this month's Scoop. What does that tell you about his character and/or leadership skills?
Remember, I worked with him on a day-to-day basis. You only know the political side of him, when he's sucking up and tap dancing in front of the Powell's at conferences. Is that not also fair to say?

Back to this stock thing. You still did not tell me how an appointed agent would go about purchasing stock in SL; and, how does he/she obtain access to those financials you referenced?

Agencies grow and shrink, then grow and shrink, all the time. Recruiting efforts determine the size of your group. I also could have 60 agents today and zero of that same 60 a year from now. But my recruiting efforts would have another 60 trying out this thing we call FE sales.

The work ethic of the agent has the major influence in his/her longevity in the FE arena. The only way Marvin could have an agent switched to his downline would be to have the permission of that agent's upline and also the licensing dept, with the agent them self requesting this whole process. Sr Life doesn't allow managers poaching agents from other downlines like some other places. That causes friction amongst uplines and is not healthy for the carrier.

Switching agents between downlines is usually not allowed. I know that from experience myself. If an agent was switched to Marvin's downline it may have been because the agent lives in his area, but was recruited from an out of state manager.

For the stock purchase call the home office and they will connect you with the financial dept. The minimum purchase used to be $50k, but someone from Ca. at the National Awards Banquet last week told me that the minimum is now $25k, but I've not verified that yet. I'll probably just write them a check even though I was also told they will finance the purchase from your monthly pay-thru/renewals. If so, I'll confer with my CPA for his advice.

I'm not a professional investor nor do I have any experience, but investing in Sr Life now, while it's a young carrier that's growing by leaps and bounds along with continuous improvements (leadstheway app, SLICE enrollment app, Legacy-Assurance's membership savings, etc), seems like a good decision both logically and trusting my gut. In a way it's like investing in Amazon when it was a very young company.

If Sr Life had been in business only 1 year that would be different, I think. But Sr Life has been run by leaders with FE experience since circa 2001, so I feel safe with my investment.

Jump in the water feels good...lol.

 

[titeye]

Agencies grow and shrink, then grow and shrink, all the time. Recruiting efforts determine the size of your group. I also could have 60 agents today and zero of that same 60 a year from now. But my recruiting efforts would have another 60 trying out this thing we call FE sales.

The work ethic of the agent has the major influence in his/her longevity in the FE arena. The only way Marvin could have an agent switched to his downline would be to have the permission of that agent's upline and also the licensing dept, with the agent them self requesting this whole process. Sr Life doesn't allow managers poaching agents from other downlines like some other places. That causes friction amongst uplines and is not healthy for the carrier.

Switching agents between downlines is usually not allowed. I know that from experience myself. If an agent was switched to Marvin's downline it may have been because the agent lives in his area, but was recruited from an out of state manager.

For the stock purchase call the home office and they will connect you with the financial dept. The minimum purchase used to be $50k, but someone from Ca. at the National Awards Banquet last week told me that the minimum is now $25k, but I've not verified that yet. I'll probably just write them a check even though I was also told they will finance the purchase from your monthly pay-thru/renewals. If so, I'll confer with my CPA for his advice.

I'm not a professional investor nor do I have any experience, but investing in Sr Life now, while it's a young carrier that's growing by leaps and bounds along with continuous improvements (leadstheway app, SLICE enrollment app, Legacy-Assurance's membership savings, etc), seems like a good decision both logically and trusting my gut. In a way it's like investing in Amazon when it was a very young company.

If Sr Life had been in business only 1 year that would be different, I think. But Sr Life has been run by leaders with FE experience since circa 2001, so I feel safe with my investment.

Jump in the water feels good...lol.

I would love to review their financial performance and base my decision off that.
Thanks.

 

[DonP]

It's a private company . I wouldn't trust anything they publish . One reason many CO's stay private is much less scrutiny.

 

[titeye]

It's a private company . I wouldn't trust anything they publish . One reason many CO's stay private is much less scrutiny.

The whole point of issuing shares is to raise capital. Just to name a few, prudent investors are interested in whether that company is solvent, its history of operating performance, cash flows, profit margins, etc. If they are reluctant to offer those financial reports, it should raise a red flag.
So, when I could not find anything in the body of the email addressing the subject heading, which is what caught my attention in the first place, I felt like I got suckered into a game of 3-card monte.

 

[titeye]

Agencies grow and shrink, then grow and shrink, all the time. Recruiting efforts determine the size of your group. I also could have 60 agents today and zero of that same 60 a year from now. But my recruiting efforts would have another 60 trying out this thing we call FE sales.

The work ethic of the agent has the major influence in his/her longevity in the FE arena. The only way Marvin could have an agent switched to his downline would be to have the permission of that agent's upline and also the licensing dept, with the agent them self requesting this whole process. Sr Life doesn't allow managers poaching agents from other downlines like some other places. That causes friction amongst uplines and is not healthy for the carrier.

Switching agents between downlines is usually not allowed. I know that from experience myself. If an agent was switched to Marvin's downline it may have been because the agent lives in his area, but was recruited from an out of state manager.

For the stock purchase call the home office and they will connect you with the financial dept. The minimum purchase used to be $50k, but someone from Ca. at the National Awards Banquet last week told me that the minimum is now $25k, but I've not verified that yet. I'll probably just write them a check even though I was also told they will finance the purchase from your monthly pay-thru/renewals. If so, I'll confer with my CPA for his advice.

I'm not a professional investor nor do I have any experience, but investing in Sr Life now, while it's a young carrier that's growing by leaps and bounds along with continuous improvements (leadstheway app, SLICE enrollment app, Legacy-Assurance's membership savings, etc), seems like a good decision both logically and trusting my gut. In a way it's like investing in Amazon when it was a very young company.

If Sr Life had been in business only 1 year that would be different, I think. But Sr Life has been run by leaders with FE experience since circa 2001, so I feel safe with my investment.

Jump in the water feels good...lol.

"If you don't study the company, you have the same success buying the stock as you do in a poker game if you bet without looking at your cards." - Peter Lynch

 

[theinsuranceman]

"If you don't study the company, you have the same success buying the stock as you do in a poker game if you bet without looking at your cards." - Peter Lynch

I would agree if that company did not have a track record. However, consider the following..

Would you have to study Amazon, Google, Apple, Johnson & Johnson, etc.in order to invest in them? Doubtful.

If Warren Buffet recommended a stock to buy would you say "wait a minute, I need to research that company first"? Doubtful.

Sr Life went from 6 states in 2001 to 41 states circa 2018. And this was with all the economic turmoil that occurred during that time period. And it's run by people who have been in the trenches selling FE many years beforehand. They even brought FE tele-sales to the table back in 2004, over a decade before other carriers.

They offer group health ( need a small team to qualify for this one). They also offer group disability, group term, group cancer, and more (with no qualifications) while other carriers don't. There's a lot of positives about Sr Life that makes it look attractive to me.

Anyway, why are you so concerned about whether I buy stock in Sr Life? Why are you trying to butt heads with me every week up here? Are you just looking to stir things up? Trying to discredit what I say? I have no reason to lie. I'm the guy of kind to tell you the truth whether it's good, bad, or ugly.

Wish you well.

 

[theinsuranceman]

"If you don't study the company, you have the same success buying the stock as you do in a poker game if you bet without looking at your cards." - Peter Lynch

You should directly call Ron Powell, President of Senior Life, and ask him any question you'd like. I'm sure he'd like to talk with you or anyone else. He sold FE many years before they bought and renamed that carrier they bought Senior Life Insurance Company. Call him and he can answer all of your questions better than me.

It's also my understanding the Sr Life's financials are scrutinized by the Dept. of Insurance for each state they sell in every 90 days.. That means the other carriers go thru the same treatment every 90 days too.

If you're serious about getting answers to your questions, rather than stirring the pot, you'll call Ron at the home office. He speaks with agents every day.

 

[DonP]

Incorrect . There reserves are looked at . A public company is under a much greater threshold . Private companies aren't required ti release their financials . Wether it's Publix or Waffle House or senior life . I have no idea if senior life is profitable . I will say without a doubt sl and Lincoln have lower than industry persistency . I've replaced so many Lincoln it's crazy . Interestingly I run into little SL.

 

[theinsuranceman]

Incorrect . There reserves are looked at . A public company is under a much greater threshold . Private companies aren't required ti release their financials . Wether it's Publix or Waffle House or senior life . I have no idea if senior life is profitable . I will say without a doubt sl and Lincoln have lower than industry persistency . I've replaced so many Lincoln it's crazy . Interestingly I run into little SL.

If you've replaced so much business, then why were you telling Newby on a different thread the other day that you've been selling FE (over 40 years I believe?) and you couldn't really retire because you didn't have much money? And how your FE customers had zero loyalty to you, etc.?

If LH or SL had persistency problems that affected profitability they would have changed their business model a long time ago, wouldn't you agree?

For you to say privately held companies do not have to release their financials that's true. But to say privately held insurance companies don't have to release their financials that's just not true. Their financials will include their reserves...duh. They have to release these figures to each state dept. of insurance they do business in, every 90 days. They also have to release these figures to an appraisal company in order to have their privately held stock evaluated.

Wishing you better success with your FE career. Don't let this forum take away from your selling time.

 

[titeye]

I would agree if that company did not have a track record. However, consider the following..

Would you have to study Amazon, Google, Apple, Johnson & Johnson, etc.in order to invest in them? Doubtful.

If Warren Buffet recommended a stock to buy would you say "wait a minute, I need to research that company first"? Doubtful.

Sr Life went from 6 states in 2001 to 41 states circa 2018. And this was with all the economic turmoil that occurred during that time period. And it's run by people who have been in the trenches selling FE many years beforehand. They even brought FE tele-sales to the table back in 2004, over a decade before other carriers.

They offer group health ( need a small team to qualify for this one). They also offer group disability, group term, group cancer, and more (with no qualifications) while other carriers don't. There's a lot of positives about Sr Life that makes it look attractive to me.

Anyway, why are you so concerned about whether I buy stock in Sr Life? Why are you trying to butt heads with me every week up here? Are you just looking to stir things up? Trying to discredit what I say? I have no reason to lie. I'm the guy of kind to tell you the truth whether it's good, bad, or ugly.

Wish you well.

Pay attention!!! You really have difficulty comprehending. I had to correct you once already because you misread what I said about Marvin Evans. Now, you seem to think I care one way or the other about you buying stock in SL. In what paragraph of mine did you read and get that interpretation? In addition, in what paragraph did I discredit you?

If anything, my post shows that I am the one who is expressing interest in the stock. I do not have to be a representative of a company prior to determining whether it is a good investment for me or not. I simply expressed to you what information I need in order to feel comfortable making investment decisions. Obviously, you don't require the same information as I do before you invest. That is perfectly fine. It's your money. You earned it. You have the right to do with it as you please. It would be foolish of me to judge you for that.

Quite frankly, I had hoped that a SL representative other than yourself would respond to my post. However, since you are the only one that did, I assumed you were knowledgeable about the matter. I have every intention on taking your advice, calling H.O. and requesting to speak to the finance dept. However, if you just insist on being upset about something, it should be with Ron for allowing the misleading email to circulate. Why are you upset me for feeling misled?

To answer your questions:
#1. I did study Apple, Amazon, and Google before making investment decisions in either of them. For me, the process is always the same regardless of company.
#2. You are wrong about Warren Buffett. He bought Sirius XM. The stock is selling for just $6/share, which some would consider inexpensive. Did I buy it just because he owns it? No, I did not! I studied the company for myself and determined it was a bad investment. Guess what? Buffett must have agreed, because last week, he dumped all of it!.

Am I saying that I am better at analyzing a company than Buffett? No! What I am saying is that I don't care about the rhetoric (group health, disability, term, cancer, etc.) or what anyone else says about the company. Sirius XM offers employees better benefits than those and much more. Show me the financials and let me perform my own due diligence.