Went to the SL meeting

[Newby]

$18 and 90% vs $32 and $100 ... I got to say that if I were a new agent I'd go for the 18/90 rather than the 32/100, not because the math works out more favorably, but because I'd run 35 leads a week at 90 for $640 rather than the 20 leads at 100 ... now the numbers will more than work out.

Yes but it's not $32 for 100%. It's $30 for 120%. That's a huge difference.

 

[LostDollar]

They stay because paying $240 for 20 fresh, exclusive DM each makes them less stressed.

Caveat, not an agent.

I am not sure that any lead provider can say, in truth, that 100% of the leads from a mailing are fresh, exclusive leads.

I have three reasons for saying that.

1) Sometime in the last 12-18 months, one of the posters in this thread acquired an inventory of recent, unworked, leads from another agent who was going out of business. The receiver of the leads found that x% of those duplicated leads he had purchased from his supplier, ie one person had turned in lead mailing cards to multiple lead providers.

2) In a large KS metropolitan area, I believe I had the opportunity in 2019 to respond to 3 different FE mailers. There were at least 3 FE mailings, I just can't remember whether any of them duplicated return addresses. I am sure my first one this year (2020) duplicated an address from last year.

3) Over a significant period of time, at least 2-3 years, OP has consistently, basically said there are no leads in the FL panhandle. He has consistently defended this position regardless of any suggestions to the contrary in any of the threads he has brought the matter up in. Now my statement is a bit of an exaggeration, but not very much. Basically he gets the cards but people won't answer the phone OR the door.

If this is a true reflection of the age demographic and the personal characteristics of the potential client base in his territory, when multiple responses are also considered, I don't see how anyone can legitimately tell him that they can give him better leads for less money.

Just my view from the bleachers.

 

[Rearden]

We are the ones that he saw with $18 DM and 90% comp. With production, that can move to 100% comp and $12 direct mail.

We also do high comp (street or above) with full price leads.

Those two programs both have the same lead and we don't resell the leads.

I always tell agents that the higher comp and higher lead price is better in a perfect world. Unfortunately we don't live in a perfect world. Very few agents can come into this business and invest a large enough amount of money for a weeks worth of leads.

The reason we rolled out the other option was because so many agents wanted the highest comp possible, but when we would receive their DM order, it was for 10 or 15 leads per week. Agents usually want the minimum and dip their toe in. That doesn't work in this business. The lower lead cost option allows the agent to get the 25-30 range each week.

I have agents that would be more profitable on the higher comp program and I've told them several times that they can switch over to it. They stay because paying $240 for 20 fresh, exclusive DM each makes them less stressed.

Again, we just wanted to have OPTIONS for the agents. Some agents want to run leads for 20 years and write unpronounceable carriers that pay as earned on a 100% contract. Some want a different option.

Hope this clears up the confusion.

No doubt this strategy works fine for a lot of agents.

Guys, there are TONS of agents looking for a good opportunity.

Some will define "opportunity" differently than another agent.

The goal is to find the appropriate opportunity for YOU.

One thing I've learned about recruiting... it's mostly all in your head as an agent.

And sometimes it's easier devising a new method to lower resistance (like financial commitment) at the behest of commission, than it is to suddenly change someone's mind.

 

[NSRH]

Some will define "opportunity" differently than another agent.

The goal is to find the appropriate opportunity for YOU.

One thing I've learned about recruiting... it's mostly all in your head as an agent.

And sometimes it's easier devising a new method to lower resistance (like financial commitment) at the behest of commission, than it is to suddenly change someone's mind.

Heretic!

 

[DayTimer]

I am not sure that any lead provider can say, in truth, that 100% of the leads from a mailing are fresh, exclusive leads.

I have three reasons for saying that.

1) Sometime in the last 12-18 months, one of the posters in this thread acquired an inventory of recent, unworked, leads from another agent who was going out of business. The receiver of the leads found that x% of those duplicated leads he had purchased from his supplier, ie one person had turned in lead mailing cards to multiple lead providers.

I have a theory. I happen to believe the majority of IMO's who offer a fixed DM program are running through RGI. RGI had a lot of experience mailing to this demographic, and the higher the return RGI can get the better for RGI. I think we can all agree that if RGI can get a 2% return per 1000 mailers and sells those at $30/each, RGI will make a greater profit than if the return were only .08%. Even at 1% RGI's margins will be dangerously thin unless they are able to print,process, and mail for much lower costs than I am assuming.

So, RGI has an incentive to cull from its mail data lists those recipients who have never returned a completed mailer, while making sure that each time the mail drops, it goes to those recipients who have proven themselves to be consistent repeat responders.

Is this not going to result in a higher return than would otherwise be expected? If over many, many repeated mailings the mail house can identify the 15% of folks who tend to fill out and return this card at least 1/2 the time they receive it, and likewise cull the names of those who have received the 10 or 15 or 20 or more times without filling it out, will the mail house not be mailing to a list that is to their benefit more than it is to the agent on a fixed price program?

This, I believe, is why I would get the same person returning the card over and over, and so did other local agents in my area like Nick, Nate, Brenda, Frank ... plus the countless folks working the same area who I do not know.

I do not think many of those working FE direct mail on a fixed price basis are using a different vendor from most of us. One of things I liked about the FB leads is that when I first started using them, I was seeing folks whom I had never had from when running DM. However, it doesn't take long before even on FB you start to see a familiar name from time to time, and you also will start to run into other agents working the same "leads" as you are.

So, I do believe that the mail house and the FB lead vendors (other Cody Atkins who I understand re-sells FB leads after a month or so) are indeed providing the agent with an "exclusive" lead. But what is exclusive is the card, not the data lead. If the same person sends in three cards, then the mailhouse has three exclusive leads to sell. Same data lead, but exclusive card.

It is what it is and business is business. I first got licensed in 2016. The number of agents who are actively trying to sell FE has exploded in the last two years since the beginning of 2018. Tons of mail has been sent out and continues to be sent out and it is going to the same list over and over and over and over. Also, Colonial Penn, AARP, Globe Life, MOO, etc are mailing these very same folks month after month. It is a saturated niche in many areas if one is going to rely solely upon DM.

 

[DayTimer]

To write 200-350k that's the return on investment not even time

Spending $50K to make $350K is a good deal for sure.

But spending $0 and making $500K is even better.

 

[Baseball7]

Different strokes for different folks

 

[DonP]

I agree with daytimer. Saturation is becoming huge . I'm going in many houses were they tell me 2 or more agents were already there in the past month .I see stacks of globe and moo brochures. Also how are reputable facebook vendors generating 20 leads in 24 hrs? Go look at Thads video last week that FB facebook leads are bs .He's saying if the lead mentioned insurance nobody would fill it out. He shows were the client never see's the bottom of the door knock lead were a agent might contact them . Many people that i see on Fb leads think it was something free or don't recall filling out. The amount of Fb leads i door knock that have bought policy's in the past month tells me many of this leads are recycled leads. The lead tells me 100% they didn't fill out in the past few days. I'm seeing that even with the reputable facebook vendors . It is what it is . You either make x amount per 20 leads or you stop buying.

 

[Baseball7]

Many people that i see on Fb leads think it was something free or don't recall filling out.

Same excuse on dm, no perfect lead

 

[Newby]

I agree with daytimer. Saturation is becoming huge . I'm going in many houses were they tell me 2 or more agents were already there in the past month .I see stacks of globe and moo brochures. Also how are reputable facebook vendors generating 20 leads in 24 hrs? Go look at Thads video last week that FB facebook leads are bs .He's saying if the lead mentioned insurance nobody would fill it out. He shows were the client never see's the bottom of the door knock lead were a agent might contact them . Many people that i see on Fb leads think it was something free or don't recall filling out. The amount of Fb leads i door knock that have bought policy's in the past month tells me many of this leads are recycled leads. The lead tells me 100% they didn't fill out in the past few days. I'm seeing that even with the reputable facebook vendors . It is what it is . You either make x amount per 20 leads or you stop buying.

Is Thad not doing Facebook leads anymore?