What is My Next Move ?

[rmattgonzales]

After working for a medicare advantage insurer doing pre-sales/customer service, I got my producers license and started working at that same call center for Blue Cross/Blue Sheild (medicare-advantage), taking phone leads, making no commission.

I plan to continue this through the AEP to gain some experience and want to do whatever it takes to eventually invest in and operate a Brokerage.

Should I go to work as a captive agent in January...? This couldn't be the best move, could it? I do need field experience, but want to be able to make a living wage while i'm at it, even own my residual commissions.

What is my next move????

 

[HomeService]

Re: What is My Next Move>>????

I see nothing wrong with getting a year or two of experience- with a captive co.-under your belt before you try and break out on your own. They may make you sign a non-compete, though, so when you do leave, you don't mess with their clients.

 

[Josh]

Re: What is My Next Move>>????

After working for a medicare advantage insurer doing pre-sales/customer service, I got my producers license and started working at that same call center for Blue Cross/Blue Sheild (medicare-advantage), taking phone leads, making no commission.

To many people get spoiled with the leads a large company spends hundreds of thousands, if not millions of dollars generating, take a paycheck and benefit package that is more than most agents make, and then get all excited about "commissions" and feel taken advantage of because they aren't earning "commissions".

Statistically speaking your odds of being able to make more money as an indy than where you're at are NOT good. I don't know the exact numbers, but I think it's fair to say that 90% of agents who are indy fail in their first year, regardless of their experience going into it. Of what's left and folks that actually stay in the business, very few of them make what I would consider a good income.

 

[Frank Stastny]

Re: What is My Next Move>>????

Although I agree with some of what MedicarePlanSolutions said, any agent who wants to work the senior market today is not going to be very successful being captive. I think those days are gone forever.

Agents are going to have to have the option of representing all Med Supp companies in the state or states they are selling in. The companies that were the most competitive two years ago may be around the bottom of most competitive list today. If an agent is captive with one of those companies he will have nothing to sell any longer.

The senior market is not rocket science. I find senior products, especially Med Supps, the easiest kind of insurance to learn and sell. Med Supps can also be one of the most lucrative products to sell. In almost all states companies pay first year commission for the first six years. Texas pays first year commission for seven years and Indiana for eight years. One will have difficulty finding any other product that pays like that.

I have helped many agents, new to insurance, get a start as an independent agent selling Med Supps. If the agent is sincere, willing to treat selling insurance like a "real" job and will devote the time necessary they can be very successful.

However, make no mistake, it is work. No one starting out is going to be successful hiring others to do their prospecting, working four or five hours a day, three days a week, and going on "appointments" to drop off "valuable" information.

The agents who are the least successful are those who won't accept the fact that 80% of selling insurance is prospecting and only 20% is the "fun" part of writing apps and collecting commission checks. Those are the agents who comprise the 90% who fail at insurance and end up applying to be a greeter at Walmart.

 

[Josh]

Re: What is My Next Move>>????

Although I agree with some of what MedicarePlanSolutions said, any agent who wants to work the senior market today is not going to be very successful being captive. I think those days are gone forever.

To get a little philosophical with you, I have to respectfully disagree with you. The days of a commission only captive agent being able to earn a living are most likely numbered and then will go the way of the dinosaur, but the days of the salaried agent working for a carrier will most likely always be here. I think the OP is a w2 employee with a nice little hourly and benefits maybe making $36k or so/year working 40 hours/week working absolute lay downs and thinks the grass is greener on the other side if he gets the illustrious "commissions". I think what most salaried employees don't realize is how easy their job is, how safe their job is, and how much they would have to make 1099 to match what they have now. Take the $36k which I think is a low number, by the time you add the FICA that the company is paying for him, health insurance, workers comp, super great leads, office space, phone, etc, for him to replace that (less the office space he most likely won't need), he'd easily have to make around $50k/year just to get to where he was at. I think there was another thread on here asking how many agents make at least $40k/year, the answer is not many. Most aren't talented enough to be able to prospect and they think it will be a lot easier than it is. Some folks on here have figured out their niche and systems and are knocking it out of the park. Frank, I think you're a perfect example of that. Most agents don't have the financial savings to wait until they're actually making money and even if they do, most can't learn to prospect and that's the real shame.

 

[Full Throttle]

Learning to prospect is easy. Getting someone to actually do enough of it on a consistent basis is not easy.

 

[rmattgonzales]

I really do appreciate everyone's feedback, however, please understand that i'm being sub-contracted by Blue Shield through a franchised call center which is nothing but a crook to it's expendable employees. I am one of four licensed agents in the building, I receive no benefits, can't approach 40 hours (even though I'm considered full time), but do realize that i'm gaining a bit of experience which never hurt anybody.

BUT...you can't pay the rent with what they offer, and i'm not a dumb guy, so I guess the next step, according to your advice, is to start shopping myself around the market of employers. And you're right, commissions don't mean a thing to me. A steady income in a professional setting is all I'm really after.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Med-Sup, PDP and Advantage plans are relatively easy plans to sell, considering how awful Original Medicare is and that seniors are fined if they don't carry Part D coverage. A lot of plans are even offering $0 premiums for chronic plans that carries Rx coverage.. ....

I want to get away from this awful call center in January and get a chance to make a livable wage selling insurance, to whatever degree I can.

 

[Frank Stastny]

Re: What is My Next Move>>????

To get a little philosophical with you, I have to respectfully disagree with you. The days of a commission only captive agent being able to earn a living are most likely numbered and then will go the way of the dinosaur,

You may very well be right but I don't see that happening anytime in the near future. It may evolve over time, a long time, but I don't see a trend moving in that direction, not with Med Supps anyway.

AARP (United Health Care) whos policies have always been sold over the phone and by mail is now soliciting agents to sell their Med Supps. I think that is a very positive indication that Med Supps are going continue to be sold by commission agents.

Most aren't talented enough to be able to prospect and they think it will be a lot easier than it is. ... most can't learn to prospect and that's the real shame.

I totally agree with that statement. There are a vast number of "agents" who should have never even considered getting an insurance license.

I don't think it is so much that they "can't learn to prospect", I think it is more that they refuse to learn to prospect. They're lazy and are convinced that there is an "easy" way to make six figures selling insurance.

I have agents who I have trained to sell the way I do and they are kicking ass and taking names. Craig Sturgill, "Success" on this board, called me a couple of weeks ago to tell me he wrote six Med Supps on Monday of that week. He has never purchased a lead and sold them all face to face. He did say that he worked fifteen hours that day. It can be done if an agent is sincere about wanting to become successful and is willing to do what is necessary.

Every week there are threads started titled, "Who is the best appointment setter?", "Who has the best leads?", Where can I find a good telemarketer?". I cringe every time I see those. I want to respond with "Selling insurance is not for you".

I believe there is only one reason why I have been successful. When I started I didn't even own a computer. My training consisted of being handed a Medicare Guide book and my "leads" was a voter registration list for the county because they had birth dates of everyone. I said I had questions and the answer was, "you'll pick it up as you go along, here's a stack of apps". I didn't have a choice, I had to learn to prospect and sell on my own or fail.

I blame advances in technology for the failure of most agents today. Every "new kid" thinks all they have to do is create a website, buy internet leads, hire a telemarketer and all they are going to have to do is write applications and collect commission checks.

When I explain to agents that they are going to have to learn to prospect and find clients on their own they don't believe me. They tell me that is too much work and will hire someone to do what they consider the "grunt" work. Almost like that is beneath them.

It's how I make money and making money has never been "beneath me". I've been doing it that way for seventeen years and I'm still doing it that way. It is the easiest, most successful, most cost effective way for me to get new clients.

I would never consider selling insurance anyway except on straight commission. If that goes away I will get out of insurance. I will not be a salaried employee, I don't play well with others.

 

[Crabcake Johnny]

You can blame the recruiters, not the new agents for that Frank. Already I'm seeing no shortage of ads trying to recruit senior agents to "buy leads and sell online."

First of all, only few med supp carriers have online apps. So right off the bat those agents will be cramming a square peg in a round hole.

On top of that, what's the average advance? Around $250? Get senior leads at $10 a pop and you'd have to gain one client per 10 leads.

Closing 1 out of 10 supp leads online? I'm sure there's that one superstar agent out there actually doing that that the GA is parading him around while the other 99% of agents they contract don't have a shot in hell.

First of all, here's the truth:

A: If you're going to buy senior leads you'd better buy them within driving radius, qualify and schedule appointments.

B: Be prepared to see a 1:2 ratio (lead cost to comp) 1st year with a very long term mentality.

You can indeed pull off buying senior leads but you'll pay for it dearly against first year commission. That you'll buy leads and make "six figures" first year? After lead costs? Again, not a shot in hell.

 

[Frank Stastny]

You can blame the recruiters, not the new agents for that Frank. Already I'm seeing no shortage of ads trying to recruit senior agents to "buy leads and sell online."

There have been con men since the beginning of time. Yes, the recruiters blow all kinds of smoke up newbies asses but they are only a part of the problem. Just do a search here, there are tons of threads stating what a scam it is, that the vast majority of them are shoveling pure crap. Yet, agents still keep pissing away their money. Who's fault is that???????

First of all, only few med supp carriers have online apps. So right off the bat those agents will be cramming a square peg in a round hole.

Exactly! Online apps for the senior market are only successful with a very small percentage of seniors. Even though I have them available I don't use them. I sell to them the way they are the most comfortable, not what is easiest for me.

On top of that, what's the average advance? Around $250? Get senior leads at $10 a pop and you'd have to gain one client per 10 leads.

That is part of the problem. Agents only think in terms of having made $250 to $350 when they write an app. Med Supp companies typically pay first year commission for the first six years. Renewals can almost double every year.

Closing 1 out of 10 supp leads online? I'm sure there's that one superstar agent out there actually doing that that the GA is parading him around while the other 99% of agents they contract don't have a shot in hell.

No one is going to close 1 out of 10 "leads". Anyone who says they do is blowing smoke. If leads were that good I would still be purchasing them. I don't think they are worth the paper they are written on. I can back that up with seventeen years of experience.

First of all, here's the truth:

A: If you're going to buy senior leads you'd better buy them within driving radius, qualify and schedule appointments.

A realistic driving radius for me is the state of Missouri. Yes, it is cost effective for me to drive two hours one way to write one app. I still have seniors as clients who took a policy with me in 1993 and I'm still earning commission every month when they make a premium payment. Is it worth a four hour drive to earn commission for seventeen years? You tell me.

B: Be prepared to see a 1:2 ratio (lead cost to comp) 1st year with a very long term mentality.

You can indeed pull off buying senior leads but you'll pay for it dearly against first year commission. That you'll buy leads and make "six figures" first year? After lead costs? Again, not a shot in hell.

Pissing away money buying "leads" when working the senior market is a total waste. You are accustomed to selling individual health. Leads may be necessary. They are not necessary to sell Med Supps.

I agree, it is not likely that an agent is going to top six figures their first year selling Med Supps. However, because of the way companies pay commissions it is very realistic the third year. Probably a lot sooner for guys like Craig.

One can't equate selling Med Supps to selling any other kind of insurance. Med Supps are a totally different animal.