33 Gun Purchases - No Red Flags

[DHK]

Yes, the issue is mental illness. So this person was on Valium and he started accumulating guns. So if we had a registry that tracked gun purchases by person and could access the prescription database, he would have been flagged. Mentally ill people should not have unlimited access to guns. Had he tried to become a pilot, we have checks to question him. Try buy life insurance, he would have been asked questions. Buy 70 guns, no problem.

I don't know about merging the two together in a practical sense. But buying a ton of guns through legal channels just seems excessive.

Unless you're buying for your family (and wouldn't that require separate registration for each gun?) I don't see why anyone would realistically need to buy any more than 15 guns "for sport" in a given year. I hate to put a number on it, but I think it's reasonable as most collectors spend YEARS (as Scagnt83 said) to accumulate their collection.

Just use the State ID to track their gun purchases just to keep an eye on it - just like the IRS does for large currency transactions and California does with cold medicine purchases in a given period. Btw, if you try to buy too much cold medicine, the transaction is declined. You'd have to come back with someone else with their ID to buy more under their ID.

Of course, the NRA would be against any measure to restrict the 2nd amendment, but I'd like to have a kind of federal warning system that can send alerts to local law enforcement and/or mental health institutions?

I don't know. I'm just thinking about this to see how we can protect society and still protect the individual's right to bear arms.

 

[AgentOrange]

LEO and military commit suicide because they are around guns?!?

Has nothing to do with the thing they have lived?

The murders in Chicago murder because they can get guns? Not because of who they are?

Yup, it is the guns.

There's suicidal and murderous people all across the world, what makes our rates the highest is the access to guns.

And this is an important thing people need to understand, getting some control over our guns will not stop every suicide and murder but it will lessen them and save lives. The idea that people like you choose not to believe the fact that law enforcement in other western countries don't commit suicide at the same rate as in America simply because they don't have easy access to guns is exactly the problem.

The number one suicidal method is by gun. It's quick, it's easy and virtually painless. That's a big difference to the alternatives that are slow and painful. Guns make suicide easy. Guns also make murder easy.

 

[AgentOrange]

I think I'm beginning to understand.

Having guns = a disease/plague that can "trigger" (pardon the pun) at any time.

I get it now. Thanks. (ugh)

Why be all "ugh" about it? If you don't believe easy access to guns is the number one reason for our high suicide rate then say so. Having guns around you increases the likelyhood of be killed by a gun, whether on accident or suicide. That's a fact.

 

[DHK]

Guns are tools to be yielded by someone who is (supposedly) mentally stable and properly trained. A tool cannot be a plague/disease. Only the person using it. Notice that the news - even the most Liberal Left news - talks about the gun MAN and not necessarily the gun MANUFACTURER. People kill people. Guns just happen to be one of many ways.

However, just like drugs, some moderation and/or tracking may be a good thing to monitor. I know many people who have MANY firearms (both for sport and collections), who are skilled in their use, and very responsible in their use and storage of those firearms. They are moderate in their PURCHASING of those firearms, but they are very responsible. I doubt they'll ever be buying over 10 guns in a year.

 

[AgentOrange]

Guns are tools to be yielded by someone who is (supposedly) mentally stable and properly trained. A tool cannot be a plague/disease. Only the person using it. Notice that the news - even the most Liberal Left news - talks about the gun MAN and not necessarily the gun MANUFACTURER. People kill people. Guns just happen to be one of many ways.

However, just like drugs, some moderation and/or tracking may be a good thing to monitor. I know many people who have MANY firearms (both for sport and collections), who are skilled in their use, and very responsible in their use and storage of those firearms. They are moderate in their PURCHASING of those firearms, but they are very responsible. I doubt they'll ever be buying over 10 guns in a year.

You've corrupted the point and reduced it to the absurd. You are aware enough to realize there is a problem but lack the courage of your own convictions to face it head on. You've changed my argument about easy access and volume of guns into a an absurd false argument about plagues and diseases.

Gun owners are overwhelmingly "moderate" and responsible. That is not new. I don't have a problem with responsible gun owners. But there has to be laws for public safety that ensure all gun owners are responsible.

What would solve your concern about being able to buy 33 weapons in a year with no accountability is a national gun registry. That would solve a lot of other problems too. Do you have the courage to stand up for something like that?

 

[DHK]

The problem with a National Gun Registry... would be a conspiracy theory that would be promulgated that "you want to know who has all the guns so you know who to disarm". Of course, all legal guns are registered anyway, so it's not much of a stretch.

The problem isn't the guns (as you alluded to in post #17). You blamed the presence of guns, rather than the owners of guns and the unmonitoring of larger amounts of gun sales to an individual in a short period of time. This has to do with the individual more than the tool itself. You want to blame the gun while I want to monitor behavior (which is already going on in many areas of our lives already). Probably two sides of the same coin.

I think uniformed laws across state lines in regards to gun sales, a national gun registry, and national permits for concealed carry permits valid in every state... would overall be a good thing.

And we could EVEN say that this is a regulated national (volunteer) militia.

 

[AgentOrange]

The problem with a National Gun Registry... would be a conspiracy theory that would be promulgated that "you want to know who has all the guns so you know who to disarm". Of course, all legal guns are registered anyway, so it's not much of a stretch.

The problem isn't the guns (as you alluded to in post #17). You blamed the presence of guns, rather than the owners of guns and the unmonitoring of larger amounts of gun sales to an individual in a short period of time. This has to do with the individual more than the tool itself. You want to blame the gun while I want to monitor behavior (which is already going on in many areas of our lives already). Probably two sides of the same coin.

I think uniformed laws across state lines in regards to gun sales, a national gun registry, and national permits for concealed carry permits valid in every state... would overall be a good thing.

And we could EVEN say that this is a regulated national (volunteer) militia.

You keep saying I blame the guns but I will reiterate you are mistaken. It is the availability of guns. For example, would someone on a diet be more likely to break their diet if they had pie in their house? Would a smoker be more likely to smoke if cigarettes were not in the house. I'm not blaming cigarettes or pie, I'm making a point about availability. Does this make sense to you? I'm not blaming the baker, the smoker or the dieter. I'm making a point about availability.

I don't know about a "national militia" because we already have a standing volunteer army, including national guards in each state. As far as concealed carry, that is a state's issue. If people want conceal carry, have your State work out reciprocity with other states and only visit those states if it's an issue for you. I don't want more guns in my state, I know it would make my state less safe.

However, the permits and registrations (recurring like we do with cars) would be a good idea and make a big impact on gun violence and suicide in our country.

 

[AgentOrange]

Here is an article to prove my point about availability of guns and increase in deaths by gun. Notice they are all states with loose gun laws:

Death by gun: Top 20 states with highest rates


Death by firearm per 100,000 population: 19.8

No permit required for purchase of a firearm.

In Alaska, suicide was the leading cause of gun deaths, with it being the main factor in more than 80% of all firearm deaths. John Roman, senior fellow at the Urban Institute, an economic and social policy think tank told USA Today that states with the highest rates of suicide also usually had the strongest culture of gun ownership. "There are many more suicides in places where it's easy to get a gun," he said

 

[rugerred]

The biggest reason for Alaskan suicide is because of the extended period of darkness. The all have guns because there is something around every tree waiting to kill you. Alcohol is a huge problem and also contributes to the high suicide rate. Do know anyone that actually lives there or is that nifty article enough for you?

 

[AgentOrange]

The biggest reason for Alaskan suicide is because of the extended period of darkness. The all have guns because there is something around every tree waiting to kill you. Alcohol is a huge problem and also contributes to the high suicide rate. Do know anyone that actually lives there or is that nifty article enough for you?

I've been to Alaska. The point of the article was to show the states with the most gun violence and gun suicides are states with the loosest gun laws. There is no debate about this because it's math. I'm sure you will debate it though.