Another Major LTC Player Making Sweeping Changes

[Chuckles21]

it always amazes me how someone can read tone from a text or an email.

All pieces of literature, even official documents, have some sort of tone. Authors create the tone of their piece of writing through the use of various other literary elements, such as diction, or word choice; syntax, the grammatical arrangement of words in a text for effect.

If you can't understand his tone from that post I really don't know what to say, as it is pretty obvious.

Any other snide remarks that make no sense? (applies to you bill as well)

 

[Arthur Rudnick]

I think we're losing the focus here.

No one has said that NWM doesn't offer a good policy, they do. (Not great, but good). And yes, their financial ratings are the highest in the industry.

But, the point being made here is this:

A NWM agent will present to their client a LTC policy. The agent will tell the client how good the policy is and present a quote.

What the NWM agent will NOT say is: "Here's our product, here's our cost. However, there are 8 other carriers out there that offer a better policy at much less expensive rates".

As a captive agent, that goes with the territory. It may be good for the agent and it may be good for the company. However, IMO, being captive is not good for the cleint.

 

[Chuckles21]

I think we're losing the focus here.

No one has said that NWM doesn't offer a good policy, they do. (Not great, but good). And yes, their financial ratings are the highest in the industry.

But, the point being made here is this:

A NWM agent will present to their client a LTC policy. The agent will tell the client how good the policy is and present a quote.

What the NWM agent will NOT say is: "Here's our product, here's our cost. However, there are 8 other carriers out there that offer a better policy at much less expensive rates".

As a captive agent, that goes with the territory. It may be good for the agent and it may be good for the company. However, IMO, being captive is not good for the cleint.

Arthur,

That is your opinion and when stated in this manner i have no issues with it. I do know that our agencies top LTC rep does show a few other companies including Genworth every time so that the clients know that if they want another company he can help them. He sells NWM the vast majority of the time though even with the clients seeing Genworth.

 

[2insureyou]

If you guys can't see the elitism coming from your side of the aisle as well as mine, then I don't know what to say. You are elitist in that you take pride in being completely independent and not a career agent. I am elitist in being with the most financially secure company in the industry.

We're all good at positioning ourselves with our clients.

And again, to say that NM's policy is "good, not great" is elitist, and a matter of opinion. In fact, it can very well be argued that NM's policy IS "better" in the long run for clients.

It's certainly "better" than, say, Bankers or Penn Treaty in my opinion, but then, what I base that on may be completely different than what you base it on.

Is it "better" than JH, Trans, or Genworth? In my opinion, yes, but then, I can sell NM, and with the exception of Chuckles, no one else who has posted on this thread, to my knowledge, can.

In fact, my clients must enjoy that kool-aid also, because almost none of them buy from another company, even when I'm in competition, and even when it is a brand new client whom I've never met.

So, it's not just an opinion held by NM reps and existing clients.

But, it is still just that, an opinion... and I'm sure you disagree...

It is my fault for taking the bait and defending NM on this. It has done nothing to serve any of our practices or clients to have this pee-pee contest.

The original intent of the post was a head's up about Mass Mutual's changes in LTCi.

My bad...

 

[Arthur Rudnick]

And again, to say that NM's policy is "good, not great" is elitist, and a matter of opinion

I'm not sure if elitism has anything to do with it. I'm also not sure if this "opinion" is limited to me. I view it as a fact, not an opinion.

I'll state again: NWM offers a "good" policy, not a "great policy".

I gave you 2 examples of NWM vs Genworth:
1) Genworth offers a zero-day elimination period for home care, NWM does not.
2) Genworth allows for unlicensed, informal caregivers, NWM does not.

In comparing benefits, IMO, those are 2 huge advantages. Equally, important (or more important) Genworth's premiums are 30%-60% less than NWM.

The only ace that NWM holds is their financial ratings. Genworth (GE Capital) has been in the LTC business since the early 1970's. They are the largest carrier in the market and for 2012 will most likely become the #1 company in new policyholders and sales. They have a much better & longer claims history than any other carrier, especially NWM.

There are a number of carriers that offer a partial cash benefit. There's one that offers a 100% cash benefit. IMO, NWM is nothing more than a typical, reimbursement policy, and there are many "typical reimbursement" policies on the market. I'm not discussing company, I'm discussing product & benefits.

I'm not trying to bash NWM, nor am I shilling for Genworth. I'm just presenting some facts as to why I feel other companies offer better products at less premium than NWM.

But, you believe in your company and you believe in your product and there's nothing wrong with that.

And, you're right. This thread started out with a MM announcement. But, it wound up dealing with NWM. Off topic? Maybe, but never-the-less, an excellent thread.

 

[ltcadviser]

And again, to say that NM's policy is "good, not great" is elitist, and a matter of opinion. In fact, it can very well be argued that NM's policy IS "better" in the long run for clients.

Is it "better" than JH, Trans, or Genworth? In my opinion, yes, but then, I can sell NM, and with the exception of Chuckles, no one else who has posted on this thread, to my knowledge, can.

There is a distinction between the legal contract aka the policy; and the company's relative financial strength and stability aka its Comdex rating.

Yes, Northwestern has a 100 Comdex. Thus, it is a relatively "stronger" company than every other life insurance company in North America.

No, the Northwestern LTC policy is not the best long term care insurance policy. Neither are the Transamerica, Genworth or John Hancock reimbursement long term care insurance policies. (Although, as far as reimbursement policies go, I really like and tend to prefer Genworth's flexibility with certain home care needs in approving unlicensed and uncertified home caregivers; as well as its lack of claims offset language within the contract).

Anyway, I do not know anyone with a brain of of a donkey that would not understand and agree that MedAmerica Simplicity is the best long term care insurance policy.

Being a stronger company does not mean, however, that Northwestern is more likely to pay a claim than another company.

Claims are paid according to the wording of the legal contract.

The policy that is always most likely to pay a long term care insurance claim is MedAmerica Simplicity.

You can ask 100 long term care insurance consultants what is the best long term care insurance policy offered today and 100 answers will be Simplicity.

Also, having a 100 Comdex does not mean that a company will never increase premiums. John Hancock used to be A++ with AM Best; and had a 98 Comdex. John Hancock had underwritten LTC for 20 years without a rate increase. It is raising rates by 90% today.

Northwestern could easily raise premiums in 10 years, as well.

This morning I was drinking coffee at a Starbucks and a NWML agent was trying to sell a life insurance and a disability insurance policy to a gentlemen. He stated that Northwestern's life insurance premiums were not the cheapest, and not the most expensive, but if the client shopped around with Banner Life, ING, Ohio National, and the other cheap term companies, he might save 5%.

5%?! Puh--Leaze. It was if he was trained to tell his client that Northwestern isn't the cheapest, but is the best; and was trained to tell his client that the difference is so small, it's not worth even checking out.

He also stated that the Northwestern disability policy was the best disability contract in the country, which is ridiculous because the last time I read disability insurance contracts cover-to-cover I reached the conclusion the Guardian Provider Plus contract is easily the best disability contract offered today.

But hey, I wouldn't want to confuse this agent with facts.

I almost spit out my coffee.

2insureyou, I don't have a problem with you writing your company's policy, but to insinuate that if your client can't afford a Lexus you will show him a Toyota is a joke.

Simplicity is the Lexus, my friend.
Guardian Provider Plus is the Lexus, my friend.

Read the contracts.

Just because you deliver Quiet Care in a leather binder does not make it a better policy.

I could deliver Simplicity in a paper folder, and it is still the better long term care insurance contract than anything your company offers, or will ever offer.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Arthur,

That is your opinion and when stated in this manner i have no issues with it. I do know that our agencies top LTC rep does show a few other companies including Genworth every time so that the clients know that if they want another company he can help them. He sells NWM the vast majority of the time though even with the clients seeing Genworth.

And with Northwestern only having a Standard rate classification, I would assume this nice agent shows quotes at Preferred rates with Genworth; or Ultra Preferred rates with Mass Mutual, etc? Especially for the 55 year old couples taking only simvastatin, lisinopril and synthroid?

I doubt it.

And I would assume he fully explains claims offset language.

I doubt it again.

And shared coverage options.

I also doubt it.

I was once a captive agent. I know the drill.

 

[Mr_Ed]

There is a distinction between the legal contract aka the policy; and the company's relative financial strength and stability aka its Comdex rating.

Yes, Northwestern has a 100 Comdex. Thus, it is a relatively "stronger" company than every other life insurance company in North America.

No, the Northwestern LTC policy is not the best long term care insurance policy. Neither are the Transamerica, Genworth or John Hancock reimbursement long term care insurance policies. (Although, as far as reimbursement policies go, I really like and tend to prefer Genworth's flexibility with certain home care needs in approving unpaid and uncertified home caregivers; as well as its lack of claims offset language within the contract).

Anyway, I do not know anyone with a brain of of a donkey that would not understand and agree that MedAmerica Simplicity is the best long term care insurance policy.

Being a stronger company does not mean, however, that Northwestern is more likely to pay a claim than another company.

Claims are paid according to the wording of the legal contract.

The policy that is always most likely to pay a long term care insurance claim is MedAmerica Simplicity.

You can ask 100 long term care insurance consultants what is the best long term care insurance policy offered today and 100 answers will be Simplicity.

Also, having a 100 Comdex does not mean that a company will never increase premiums. John Hancock used to be A++ with AM Best; and had a 98 Comdex. John Hancock had underwritten LTC for 20 years without a rate increase. It is raising rates by 90% today.

Northwestern could easily raise premiums in 10 years, as well.

This morning I was drinking coffee at a Starbucks and a NWML agent was trying to sell a life insurance and a disability insurance policy to a gentlemen. He stated that Northwestern's life insurance premiums were not the cheapest, and not the most expensive, but if the client shopped around with Banner Life, ING, Ohio National, and the other cheap term companies, he might save 5%.

5%?! Puh--Leaze. It was if he was trained to tell his client that Northwestern isn't the cheapest, but is the best; and was trained to tell his client that the difference is so small, it's not worth even checking out.

He also stated that the Northwestern disability policy was the best disability contract in the country, which is ridiculous because the last time I read disability insurance contracts cover-to-cover I reached the conclusion the Guardian Provider Plus contract is easily the best disability contract offered today.

But hey, I wouldn't want to confuse this agent with facts.

I almost spit out my coffee.

2insureyou, I don't have a problem with you writing your company's policy, but to insinuate that if your client can't afford a Lexus you will show him a Toyota is a joke.

Simplicity is the Lexus, my friend.
Guardian Provider Plus is the Lexus, my friend.

Read the contracts.

Just because you deliver Quiet Care in a leather binder does not make it a better policy.

I could deliver Simplicity in a paper folder, and it is still the better long term care insurance contract than anything your company offers, or will ever offer.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -


And with Northwestern only having a Standard rate classification, I would assume this nice agent shows quotes at Preferred rates with Genworth; or Ultra Preferred rates with Mass Mutual, etc? Especially for the 55 year old couples taking only simvastatin, lisinopril and synthroid?

I doubt it.

And I would assume he fully explains claims offset language.

I doubt it again.

And shared coverage options.

I also doubt it.

I was once a captive agent. I know the drill.

will you marry me?

(don't blow my cover.)

 

[Arthur Rudnick]

will you marry me?

 

[ikeman07]

Wow....I seem to be a little late to the party, but I thought I would throw my two cents in as well. I am somewhat of a newbie at NML, I have only been there for three years, but I do sell a good bit of LTC...and I also typically show a couple of other companies, Genworth included. Most of my clients choose the NML policy. I miss the MetLife policy since I had clients that want to retire overseas, and it had a good payout option outside of the U.S.

The NML policy that is really attractive to a lot of clients is the one where they have the choice to increase benefits every year if they want to and then the premiums increase as well. While I like the level premium option much better, it can be a good way to get people locked into coverage and you can convert the policy to a level premium later (after the house is paid off, etc.) when cash flow increases or debt decreases.

One thing that definately makes NML competitive over the life of the policy, is our dividend. When I show illustrations I spreadsheet them and show the cumulative premium payment over 30 years. Genworth is almost always the cheapest, NML with the dividends almost always comes in 2nd or 3rd in price on the level premium. And for the first 20 years, the increasing premium policy is typically cheaper or on par with Genworth. It definately gets much more costly by the thirtieth year however.

One other feature that is also nice is our elimination period (yes the Genworth zero day is probably the best) ours is a weekly elimination over a daily. One hour on a Monday counts for the whole week. This can help cut costs for someone during the elimination period in the beginning when they might not need too much care. Either way they should have a proper amount of cash set aside.

 

[Norwayguy]

And I want Bankers to simply fall of the face of the planet. Please, can somebody shut that company down?

Oh come on think of them this way. Thier clients already believe in the insurance, now you can show them a better carrier.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

I think we're losing the focus here.

No one has said that NWM doesn't offer a good policy, they do. (Not great, but good). And yes, their financial ratings are the highest in the industry.

But, the point being made here is this:

A NWM agent will present to their client a LTC policy. The agent will tell the client how good the policy is and present a quote.

What the NWM agent will NOT say is: "Here's our product, here's our cost. However, there are 8 other carriers out there that offer a better policy at much less expensive rates".

As a captive agent, that goes with the territory. It may be good for the agent and it may be good for the company. However, IMO, being captive is not good for the cleint.

I don't sell much LTC and I'm independent when I present my recommendation I don't tell the client there is hundreds of other policies that can do the same thing for less premium. I say this is what I recommend and why.