Anybody get the email from Key Financial?

[James]

I can see your point. Your point is I'm walking into a strip joint to get food, then bitching that I don't want to see the strippers and now want a law outlawing strip joints. Solution? If I don't want to see strippers don't go to strip joints.

There's a lot of merit to that argument but all places to eat don't have strippers whereas all places I go to eat allow smoking. That means I cannot choose to "go someplace else" since there are smokers in every restaurant.

That all being said, if someone wants to open "the smokehouse" and have to be a place to eat and drink specifically for smokers I don't think a law should disallow that.

You got the idea, but as in your home State, TN has the same law and it doesn't permit to have a "Smokehouse". In other words, Private Property Rights are under attack. Unfortunely the right of private property is the true right to assure freedom, much more so then Free Speech but, people are basically to stupid to understand that.

 

[James]

If we are discussing the company I think we are, Key they have a terrible Weiss Ratings of E, meaning weak, really weak! So if anyone that is thinking about buying an annuity from them should have no problem finding out they are weak. Now Buyer Beware, if someone out there buys from a really weak company and, doesn't even have the fortitude to check basic rating services then so be it. A fool and their money is soon departed, just a universal law that always seems to be in effect.

 

[Crabcake Johnny]

In principle I agree - less government is always better government.

 

[sman]

Not from what many have stated, they would say no if someone called you and ask you don't have that right. Outside of that, if someone has a right to their money they also have a right to take counsel from whomever they decide if not, you have effectively removed control of that person and his/her money. May that be a Realtor, IA or a Preacher or whomever, it simply should not matter, if it does you are simply going around to the back door to lock up the front door. I'm not a fool, I know if such laws come to be then the slippery slope is grease and that fat lady is singing.

BS James. You are twisting and stretching. No one said a person doesn't have the right to do with THEIR OWN money whatever they wish. But when YOU, as the adviser, start telling people they should liquidate investments to put their money in an index annuity and you don't have a securities license or set up your own RIA, you have crossed the boundaries of what you are licensed to do.

Do you give legal advice? Do you give medical advice? Why not? Because you aren't properly licensed to do so and there are laws against it. Why are there laws against it? Because of the harm it could do to a person. Do you believe poor investment advice could harm a person? If so, shouldn't there be some standards for those giving such advice? And recourse for bad advice? Or do you believe anyone with an insurance license should be offering investment advice?

 

[sman]

If we are discussing the company I think we are, Key they have a terrible Weiss Ratings of E, meaning weak, really weak! So if anyone that is thinking about buying an annuity from them should have no problem finding out they are weak. Now Buyer Beware, if someone out there buys from a really weak company and, doesn't even have the fortitude to check basic rating services then so be it. A fool and their money is soon departed, just a universal law that always seems to be in effect.

Key Financial Group is a brokerage house (FMO) not an insurance company. Therefore, they wouldn't have a Weiss rating.

 

[James]

BS James. You are twisting and stretching. No one said a person doesn't have the right to do with THEIR OWN money whatever they wish. But when YOU, as the adviser, start telling people they should liquidate investments to put their money in an index annuity and you don't have a securities license or set up your own RIA, you have crossed the boundaries of what you are licensed to do.

Do you give legal advice? Do you give medical advice? Why not? Because you aren't properly licensed to do so and there are laws against it. Why are there laws against it? Because of the harm it could do to a person. Do you believe poor investment advice could harm a person? If so, shouldn't there be some standards for those giving such advice? And recourse for bad advice? Or do you believe anyone with an insurance license should be offering investment advice?

Let us get something straight, I'm a free marketeer from hell. I have been heard in these boards telling you and others straight up, one of the basic problems with the health industry today is the AMA. I do not agree with the laws of medical practice or that of legal practice either. Our form of governence or at least originally set up had nothing to do with protecting people from themselves or anyone else in these matters. The government should have limits, as describe in the Constitution, as that little piece of paper places limits on government, not you or I.

Let me ask you this, if I go to someone and ask them as a free man that I have this great business oppurtunity that they should jump in on should I be able to do it? Should I suggest, that since this idea is so great that taking money out of their retirement package may that be qualified or not would benefit them greatly? Lets face the facts, many businesses and of course losses came from people starting businesses and using money they had in Securities to fund it. Just how far do you suppose we should go? Are you saying only us with insurance license should not give counsel or is this everyone that isn't a RIA or FP?

 

[slushhhpuppie]

Not from what many have stated, they would say no if someone called you and ask you don't have that right. Outside of that, if someone has a right to their money they also have a right to take counsel from whomever they decide if not, you have effectively removed control of that person and his/her money. May that be a Realtor, IA or a Preacher or whomever, it simply should not matter, if it does you are simply going around to the back door to lock up the front door. I'm not a fool, I know if such laws come to be then the slippery slope is grease and that fat lady is singing.

I understand your point, however when a person dispenses financial advice for a fee (and yes, annuity commissions do count) they must be licensed and registered to do so with FINRA and their State's SEC Division.

If your barber wants to give you a hot stock pick, that's fine.... unless you pay him for it.

 

[James]

I understand your point, however when a person dispenses financial advice for a fee (and yes, annuity commissions do count) they must be licensed and registered to do so with FINRA and their State's SEC Division.

If your barber wants to give you a hot stock pick, that's fine.... unless you pay him for it.

Which is BS. You see this ignorant mindset came from using Seniors, you don't have a right to take advantage of 85 yr olds! I knew then that wasn't the point, it was all about the money. I do not need a securities license to give counsel about money, I can not sell securities. It is the very slippery slope I brought up earlier, first they use Seniors now they suggest it is accross the board. Just like you don't need a Insurance License to give advice about insurance, just go check out Katt whenever you want! In fact he charges around $400 hourly for his non-license advice, it is by some the best advice you can get.

In other words FINA doesn't have the power over people nor their money, even though they really want to have it but, this isn't China quite yet nor are they close in getting the golden SRO.

 

[sman]

Let us get something straight, I'm a free marketeer from hell. I have been heard in these boards telling you and others straight up, one of the basic problems with the health industry today is the AMA. I do not agree with the laws of medical practice or that of legal practice either. Our form of governence or at least originally set up had nothing to do with protecting people from themselves or anyone else in these matters. The government should have limits, as describe in the Constitution, as that little piece of paper places limits on government, not you or I.

Let me ask you this, if I go to someone and ask them as a free man that I have this great business oppurtunity that they should jump in on should I be able to do it? Should I suggest, that since this idea is so great that taking money out of their retirement package may that be qualified or not would benefit them greatly? Lets face the facts, many businesses and of course losses came from people starting businesses and using money they had in Securities to fund it. Just how far do you suppose we should go? Are you saying only us with insurance license should not give counsel or is this everyone that isn't a RIA or FP?

James,

Do you proof read the crap you type? It's so hard to follow. You still keep taking everything out of context. I think slush summed it up pretty well in his last response. The fact that someone gets paid for offering investment advice is the litmus test. If you want to go and advise someone to liquidate their investments in the market and invest in an annuity and you don't get paid for it, by all means, go right ahead.

As for your scenario about a great business opportunity, that's completely different than getting paid for investing money in an annuity. And if you don't like the way the rules are set up, do what you can to change them. I'm all for less government. But we have certain guidelines we must follow. When those guidelines change, we'll follow the new guidelines.

I'm not going to sit by and let greedy agents lie, cheat and steal without voicing my concerns and shedding light on the matter. When someone in this industry cheats, it gives us all a black eye. Do you really think that someone that has taken a 40-hour class and passed an insurance exam is qualified to be offering advice on someone's life savings? I'd say the majority of folks who fit that mold aren't prepared to offer such advice. And FMO's like Key Financial Group dispersing inaccurate information only fuels the flames of ignorance in our industry. You may not care. But I do.

 

[James]

I don't buy into what Charlie does effects me, never have an never will. In other words the only person that can give you a black eye is you.

To answer the question you and slush ask, no a commission is not the same as a fee.

I suggest and do advise that the use of Qualified money is something that should only be done if one understand the lost of control they suffer. They should understand all limitations including the good about them. I don't sell Annuities but, I understand that the EIUL is now facing the same BS and soon all CV Insurance will face the same attacks that you and others are doing with Annuities.

Guys, you are simply kidding yourselves if you think that FINA or the SEC are worried about individuals. It is about the control of money, plain and simple. This issue goes further, I don't agree with how the markets are being controlled today much or less who should or shouldn't give advice about the markets. In fact, I think in a lot of ways the idea of limiting counsel is all about limiting free speech that may run counter to todays so called fianancial theories.

Okay let us take this scenario. I walk in and counsel people that future money outside of their matching contributions should not be invested in qualified accounts. That, that money should remain in accounts that can be drawn from with no government control and their choosing with no qualified limitations and I have X and XX for them to review. Is that breaking your so called laws?