Best place for a career agent- Guardian or Mass Mutual?

[Braden]

Need help. Potentially looking at a change from my current B/d but I’m having a hard time deciding between the two.

I am a financial advisor and believe in planning in both the investment and insurance world, but love and believe in the basis of solving risk management needs first. Any advice is welcome! (Please)

 

[DHK]

Mass over Guardian. Why? I've seen and experienced some unreasonable compliance demands from Guardian with multiple producers. Mass (MMLISI) seems more reasonable more consistently.

 

[Braden]

Mass over Guardian. Why? I've seen and experienced some unreasonable compliance demands from Guardian with multiple producers. Mass (MMLISI) seems more reasonable more consistently.

How would you say they compare from a product prospective?

 

[DHK]

They're similar enough:
https://www.massmutual.com/digitalhub/LI10804e/

Here's the thing about insurance contracts: always think "six of one" vs "half dozen of the other". Some producers are really in love with non-direct recognition. Is it really that big of a deal? I don't think so. I think it washes out over time.

For me, I'd always think of who delivers great service and stays out of my way of doing good business.

However, I don't have career contracts, not anymore. This ensures that the company I'm trying to sell also isn't trying to hamper my efforts.

 

[scagnt83]

If the move is strictly for a new B/D, I would say neither.

They both suck compared to the competition.

 

[Lloyds of Lubbock]

I worked for Guardian for over 20 years.
You have to look at both contracts and see how they apply to you.
For example maybe you write a lot of cases but your lapse ratio is a bit high.
Guardian is not for you.
They both have good products.
Guardian white collar DI, I believe is better than what Mass offers.
They both offer multiple contracts, which one is best for you.
Where are you located, not all offices are equal.
There ae some locations, where one office may be superior to the other.
Check the benefits, Guardian has a true defined benefit plan for their agents.
I know Guardian U/W for life is kinder than Mass.
I would sit down with each office and give a breakdown of your biz and have them model it for you.
Both of these companies will reward big life and Di producers more than equity producers.
Good luck!

 

[PrivClientSG]

Need help. Potentially looking at a change from my current B/d but I’m having a hard time deciding between the two.

I am a financial advisor and believe in planning in both the investment and insurance world, but love and believe in the basis of solving risk management needs first. Any advice is welcome! (Please)

Great question, and I will give you another aspect/element to add to it, because if you are truly looking to be successful, and happy -- then you will have to look at a lot more other than a myopic question of "Guardian or Mass Mutual" so to speak. I've been to both home offices, numerous times. I've known people who worked in both home offices for many years, although turnover today is far more common than it used to be. I have clients who work in both home offices!

First, from a "product" perspective, unless you have specific market niches, or you are in certain marketplaces, for the most part, the two are a toss-up. Both companies have excellent products! Complete toss-up! However, if you are in a certain marketplace, for example, you sell a lot of disability insurance -- for HIE (high-income-earners), Wall St., Doctors, C-Executives, etc., relative to actual disability product/coverage/contract language, features, etc. -- Guardian has an edge here. Not only over Mass, but over everyone. I'll leave it to the vocal "I want to be right" crowd to argue this, LOL.

Second, you have to look at each company -- culture, tone, belief system, how they view each other, the field force, how they manage, how they are looking at and framing their future, and more. You'll see differences here because of history, background, size, and more. IMO, Mass Mutual has an edge here -- in technology, modernization, infrastructure, and related areas. They were quicker to "invest" in certain key areas. Mass Mutual is a bigger company than Guardian. No, bigger doesn't mean better. Better is better in the areas I spoke to IMO.

Third, you have to look at each career contract. Forget about the BS and the sales hype. Meet with each GA and ask him for a career contract report (for life and disability production) at different production levels and see what each is worth to you at age 65 and the earliest "normal" retirement age (when you can then take a "retirement contract"). Also see what the "run offs" or "residuals" are if there are any left in your production contract (before you take a retirement contract). You may want to look at age 70 as well (if they let you go to age 70). I recommend looking at what you think your production will be, or use a base-line -- $250,000 in production for X years, $500,000 in production for X years, or Y years, and so on. Do the same for equity or AUM business. I can't speak to the latter, but for the former, I think you'll find Guardian will have an edge. I just looked at this for a life agent who brings me joint-work and he is picking between the two. Guardian had the edge.

Lastly, even if you are going be in your own office, work from home, whatever -- look at each General Agency. Which one is better suited, better equipped, etc., to support YOU and YOUR BUSINESS, and support YOU in the marketplace you are in! If you are going to be in their office, then this becomes even more important. Again, you have to look at culture, operations, what they do, who they do it for, what marketplace they are in, and so on. If you are a life producer, as opposed to a wealth management advisor, a pension/life producer as opposed to a financial planner, if you are an apple as opposed to an orange, or a bowling ball for that matter.

I had a career contract with Guardian for 10 years. I had a unique opportunity to turn that into a PPGA contract (personal producing GA). I then had a career contract with Mass Mutual, and then had the same opportunity. I did it again. Today, I have both contracts. I produce about the same with both companies annually, absent some major term conversion. I also have a grandfathered contract with NY Life, and I still produce with them as well.

Look at what marketplace you are in and look at the type of producer you are. Do you do comprehensive wealth management, focus on estate planning, more financial planning, or more life insurance planning. What do you do and who do you do it for. Look for the same in the company and the General Agency.

Lastly, talk to seasoned professionals at each. At different production levels. If you are a $250k guy, seek them out and ask them. $500k, do the same. $1mm or more, again, same! If so, find out who their top producers are -- relative to your production if that's applicable -- and call them. They will take your call for the most part. Good luck!

 

[Braden]

Very informative, thank you!