Cluster F_________ed

[shawnmwalker]

"At will"

We got to step back and ask why they have that language in the contract.

If there is a 500 million dollar group of agents (lets say 300 of them) and you want to join the group with little to no experience as an agent (Or even experienced) and shortly after joining the group:

1 )You start screaming at UWers with the Groups #1 carrier partner effecting a 50 million $ relationship and giving the group a bad rep
2) Carriers are coming to you looking for signed docs you can't produce because of loose operations and causing potential E&O claims.
3) Become a drug addict because of a nasty divorce. (Lets call it a Meth Addiction- I hear those are real nasty)
4) Carriers suspect really bad behavior
5) The in house audits show really/ Really bad behavior
6) Your clients call the home office 40 times a week because they can NEVER get in touch with their agent (You)
7) You are in the news and wanted for Murder
8) There are 100+ angry clients posting horrible things about you and the group online because you are taking prems and buying Ferrari's
8) Etc. Etc. Etc.

Why is it hard to believe a group would build into the contract some language that states they can get away from this guy so the livelihoods of the group members are not affected by the new bad apple?

 

[FL P&C Broker]

Solid argument given for the other side. What happens to the book if any of those above scenarios happen?

If you are direct with a carrier you own the biz and you could roll it to another carrier. If your group terminates a contract at will do you allow the agents to try to get appointments direct or roll the book somewhere else or do they just lose the book?

 

[shawnmwalker]

The reality is GREAT groups won't terminate you at will unless you are doing something illegal or you simply have walked away from the business.

We have terminated one contract at will in my 4 years here at PGI. The agent had an extensive history we did not know about. (There is so much more to say, but I won't- We did allow him to continue to try to do Insurance on his own with no questions asked post relationship.)

We don't term for lack of production. We don't term because you get sick. We don't term because you are new and need your hand held longer, we don't term for legit mistakes. We don't term. (But I could see us terming you for some of the examples in the post above...)

Carriers may term you, but that is a separate issue altogether.

On the spectrum of Good, Better, Best

Good Groups want you to....Write 50 apps, realize this is not for you and disappear.

Better groups want you to.....

Great groups want you to..... succeed and stay up at night worrying about you and proactively help you, until you do. They are not looking at ways to screw you out of agency ownership but help you to the next level of agency ownership. Why, because we are capitalists. The more they facilitate and invest in your growth the more everyone makes.

No group should want you gone "at will" because they only make money when you stay, grow, and take care of your clients. (Maybe a good thing to look for- Rick Flair....Is the aggregator or group NOT in the retail business or making a huge cut servicing the groups insured's from home office- PGI sold their retail locations years ago and does nothing but focus on the groups agents. We don't have any meaningful mechanism to service a book from the home office and have no meaningful profit to gain if we did term a book.)

But if you get a Meth addiction and buy Ferrari's with client money- YOU GOT TO GO!

 

[FL P&C Broker]

We don't term for lack of production. We don't term because you get sick. We don't term because you are new and need your hand held longer, we don't term for legit mistakes. We don't term. (But I could see us terming you for some of those examples above...)

Who is you? So you don't term for those reasons but you could see the group terming for those reasons?

 

[shawnmwalker]

You = agent.

We don't term for the reasons stated: We don't term for lack of production. We don't term because you get sick. We don't term because you are new and need your hand held longer, we don't term for legit mistakes. We don't term. (But I could see us terming you for some of those examples above...)

I could see us terming for some of the reasons stated up above in the previous post. that post where you said I have some good counter points.

 

[FL P&C Broker]

Oh okay, understand.

The only thing that would bother me is that although you say you don't term for certain things you still can and there is nothing in writing protecting the agent.

Although most carrier contracts say something very similar, the agent can roll the biz since they own it.

 

[shawnmwalker]

I added this above in a revision. I get your point. but the language has to be there to protect the group. (300+ Families that are already part of the group making a killing)

"No group should want you gone "at will" because they only make money when you stay, grow, and take care of your clients. (Maybe a good thing to look for- Rick Flair....Is the aggregator or group NOT in the retail business or making a huge cut servicing the groups insured's from home office- PGI sold their retail locations years ago and does nothing but focus on the groups agents. We don't have any meaningful mechanism to service a book from the home office and have no meaningful profit to gain if we did term a book.)"

 

[RicFlairII]

The only thing that would bother me is that although you say you don't term for certain things you still can and there is nothing in writing protecting the agent.

Although most carrier contracts say something very similar, the agent can roll the biz since they own it.

That is the complete truth. You are looking at it the way it is.

It doesnt matter what is said verbally, it is what is in writing in the
contract that counts. Ask any attorney.

 

[shawnmwalker]

To FLP&C Broker's point. Then don't sign a carrier contract either. Don't go Captive or Indy, and don't be a contractor in any industry.

Your Lawyer is correct and still completely wrong. Like most lawyers.


My Point: Find a group that does not profit from or have a track record of "letting agents go at will"

 

[FL P&C Broker]

My point was that even though a carrier contract says something similar the agent still owns the biz and they could roll the book and start finding a new home for the polices no matter the reason the agent was termed.

The carrier might be able to term an agent at will and stop them from writing new biz tomorrow but they can't just non renew the whole book tomorrow. The agent would have 18 months to move the existing book and would still be getting paid renewal commissions.