Dropped DUI Years Ago - Now Applying to Companies.

[padthaiforlunch]

Well, I hope he disclosed to DOI when licensing, or they will pull it if they find out he lied. Very poor way to start out.

Imagine five years from now, all the hard work to build a practice. Then it comes out you lied to DOI and you lose your license. Good luck with the reinstatement.

 

[JSD8675]

Thanks for everything, guys.

The DOI was submitted a copy of my police record from Delaware, which listed no DUI whatsoever. They approved my license.

I've talked with quite a few people, and this is what I have concluded:

a: the owner of the agency gave me a preliminary "application" before I went on a ride-along with the manager, which asked, among other things if I have been "convicted." of a felony, or had my license yanked. I put "no," which is correct.

b: the owner of the agency never asked me about this.

What I am going to do, is have a talk with the owner, and tell her that I was thinking over the past couple days, and decided to speak with my cousin, who was vp for an insurance carrier. I'm going to explain I was charged with DUI, which was thrown out and expunged, but because I'm unsure as to what will show up, or not, I would like to change the answer on the carrier appointment application, and disclose the information as a precaution.

The owner of the agency, and my cousin have over a 40-year relationship, and I am hoping that by being up-front, and precautionary, that the owner of the agency will treat it as a routine protocol, and frugal decision on my part, and not see it as dishonesty.


How does that sound, guys? As diplomatic/up front as I can make it?

 

[Ins155]

Although as they say, honesty is the best policy. If you were not "convicted" you do not have a record. Thats the key word "convicted". Also, just for your knowledge, even if you were found guilty of DUI, that is not a "criminal" offense. It is a motor vehicle violation. Another example, if you received a speeding ticket two weeks ago but have not gone to court for it yet and you get stopped today, when the police run your license, there is nothing regarding your speeding because you haven't been "convicted" or found guilty yet. Its the same principal with your DUI. I'm sure the question you read stated Have you ever been "convicted" of a crime not have you ever been arrested. This is where the honesty comes in. If it stated were you ever arrested, well the answer is yes, but you were never convicted. Hope this helps. I've been in the "law enforcement" business for 21 years. This is all providing there were no accidents and no injuries to anyone when you were arrested.

 

[Winter_123]

Also, just for your knowledge, even if you were found guilty of DUI, that is not a "criminal" offense. It is a motor vehicle violation.

Whoa, be careful there. Driving under the influence is a crime in all states that I know of. Whether it is Class A, B, C (felony versus misdemeanor) whatever may vary depending on the blood alcohol content. Motor vehicle violations are crimes, although I suppose since that is a generic term that there could be some traffic tickets that are civil and maybe in some states there could be a civil penalty for a very low blood alcohol content.

You can end out in the slam real easily for driving under the influence.

 

[padthaiforlunch]

Also, some carriers ask about arrest as well as conviction. Just because expunged doesn't mean no need to disclose.

By all means do the diplomatic thing and bring it up. You were asked if you had conviction, you said no but in the interest of full disclosure, you were arrested.

 

[Ins155]

As I said in my other post, if the question was ... have you ever been arrested, then yes would be the correct answer. If the question was have you ever been convicted of a crime, then the answer is no. Sorry to burst your bubble Winter but I can see as most civilians do that you interpret that when you do something wrong it is a "crime". A crime is a "criminal act" such as robbery, burglary, receiving stolen property etc. Don't think for one minute that I support drunk drivers. I've arrested many and will continue to do so, but drunk driving is a "violation" of the states motor vehicle laws, just as running a traffic light is a violation. Only difference as per the laws are the fines and penalties. Drunk driving... loss of license for six months and $3,000.00 in surcharges. Traffic light ... two points and $150.00 fine. Had he been found guilty of DUI and god forbid there was a motor vehicle accident involved and he caused injury to others, then its a total different ballgame. Then assault charges would (notice I said would, not could) be imposed which would then be "criminal". Also, if the charges were dismissed, then there was never a violation, therefore there is nothing to be expunged. An expungement is when you have a "record" or "conviction" for something and you hire an attorney to have that record destroyed as if it never happened once you paid your fines and/or completed your sentence.

 

[Winter_123]

Sorry to burst your bubble Winter but I can see as most civilians do that you interpret that when you do something wrong it is a "crime". A crime is a "criminal act" such as robbery, burglary, receiving stolen property etc. Don't think for one minute that I support drunk drivers. I've arrested many and will continue to do so, but drunk driving is a "violation" of the states motor vehicle laws, just as running a traffic light is a violation. Only difference as per the laws are the fines and penalties. Drunk driving... loss of license for six months and $3,000.00 in surcharges. Traffic light ... two points and $150.00 fine. Had he been found guilty of DUI and god forbid there was a motor vehicle accident involved and he caused injury to others, then its a total different ballgame. Then assault charges would (notice I said would, not could) be imposed which would then be "criminal". Also, if the charges were dismissed, then there was never a violation, therefore there is nothing to be expunged. An expungement is when you have a "record" or "conviction" for something and you hire an attorney to have that record destroyed as if it never happened once you paid your fines and/or completed your sentence.

My bubble is fine thanks. There is not a state in the union where drunk driving is not a crime. You have your own home grown definition of a "crime" going simply because the crime refers to a violation of the motor vehicle laws.

Take any state you want and we can look at the laws together. It certainly is a crime in my state. So let's google up New York or some generic state: 1st offense is a misdemeanor. 2nd offense is a class E felony. 3rd offense is a class D felony punishable by up to seven years in prison. If you want to convince a guy doing 7 years that he has not committed a crime or a felony because it is only a motor vehicle violation then go for it.

 

[Ins155]

Your bubble is just fine? Thats great. I obviously hit a nerve with you which was not my intention. But since you strive to have the last word. I would love to know what experience you bring to the table on laws and law enforcement. Did you look up the definition of crime and based your findings on that. Or do you have experience? You definitely come across as the average civilian that is always quick to give pointers on the law to anyone in law enforcement. Do you tell your account how to do your taxes too? Let me guess, you do them yourself, right? I'd love for you to post here any case you could find where someone was arrested for DUI "ten" times with no accident and no injuries and went to jail for 7 years. It never happens. Based on your logic, did you know you could also be arrested for going through a stop sign even if you never had any tickets in your life? Thats a fact. Does it happen? Not usually. The ticket or summons is an alternative to an arrest. If everyone that went through a stop sign was arrested the "crime" stats across the nation would be through the roof. But according to you, its a "crime".

 

[Winter_123]

Your bubble is just fine? Thats great. I obviously hit a nerve with you which was not my intention. But since you strive to have the last word. I would love to know what experience you bring to the table on laws and law enforcement. Did you look up the definition of crime and based your findings on that. Or do you have experience? You definitely come across as the average civilian that is always quick to give pointers on the law to anyone in law enforcement. Do you tell your account how to do your taxes too? Let me guess, you do them yourself, right? I'd love for you to post here any case you could find where someone was arrested for DUI "ten" times with no accident and no injuries and went to jail for 7 years. It never happens. Based on your logic, did you know you could also be arrested for going through a stop sign even if you never had any tickets in your life? Thats a fact. Does it happen? Not usually. The ticket or summons is an alternative to an arrest. If everyone that went through a stop sign was arrested the "crime" stats across the nation would be through the roof. But according to you, its a "crime".

I am sure that MADD would be interested to know that you live in a state where drunk driving is not a crime because it has been decriminalized or was never a crime to begin with that. That would get their attention indeed.

In any case, you suggested to the original poster that even if he had been convicted of DUI that it was not a crime. I am stating with a high degree of certainty that if you do have a conviction for a DUI and do not report it on an application for an insurance or securities license when asked if you have ever been convicted of a crime which includes felonies and misdemeanors then you are going to get hammered. We can agree that the language of applications often says you can omit minor traffic violations but I would not take my chances with a DUI particularly since it is felony violation in most states, depending on the blood level.

You are stating that you have specialized understanding of the meaning of the term "crime" and I saying that is fine but the regulators dont share that view. I think the folks have enough information from each of us and others to decide what is right for them if they are submitting an application so we can leave it there.

 

[Ins155]

I stated originally honesty is the best policy. I was answering a question as to whether it would appear on his "record" or not. I welcome anyone nationwide to show me when someones "criminal history" is checked if there is a DUI listed. It is not, only once again, if there was an accident involved and injuries or a fatality. If someone ran his motor vehicle record which is totally different from a criminal record then and only then would you see a DUI, but in his case you wouldn't even see that because the charge was dismissed. By the way, MADD has nothing to do with it. I've worked closely with them over the years and have endless respect for what they've gone through. Just so you know, everything I've stated to you does not mean I agree with it. Its just the way it is. To get more personal, I personally lost a member of my immediate squad this past summer that has worked with me the past ten years due to a drunk driver while he was transporting a prisoner, so in no way shape or form do I support any drunk drivers. I'm merely calling it like it is. In this case it is criminal because he killed the one offcer and seriously injuried the other officer that was with him along with the prisoner who was also injuried. This "criminal" now faces 50 years, and I hope he gets every bit of it.