I am currently selling final expense through Lincoln Heritage. I am thinking about switching to EFES, mainly because I have heard that EFES leads are of much higher quality, and that they have better agent support (training, mentoring, etc). I know that there are a lot of threads out there dicsussing both, but I am wondering if there is anybody who has knowledge of both, and would like to give the pros and cons of each.
Final Expense: LH Versus EFES
- Thread starter MrBigD117
- Start date
- 17,069
If you are doing face to face sales Lincoln Heritage is the worst company to have unless you only use them occasionally for very unhealthy people.
EFES has been very good for a lot of people. Some people fail with it. Others believe they don't need any structure or training so they would rather be completely independent.
Comparing EFES to Lincoln Heritage is not like comparing Coke and Pepsi. It would be more like comparing a bottle of fine wine and a bottle of mud.
I hope I wasn't unclear. (I stole that line from Dave Ramsey)
EFES has been very good for a lot of people. Some people fail with it. Others believe they don't need any structure or training so they would rather be completely independent.
Comparing EFES to Lincoln Heritage is not like comparing Coke and Pepsi. It would be more like comparing a bottle of fine wine and a bottle of mud.
I hope I wasn't unclear. (I stole that line from Dave Ramsey)
- 4,843
I don't know anything about EFES except what is on this forum.
Pros for LH:
_Charge backs are NOT deducted from your next advance comm.
_You start receiving your UNadvanced comm. during month #2.
_You can call the home office on Sat. and there are people there to talk with agents.
_You can do tele-sales or face 2 face, whichever you prefer.
_LH has TV leads, best FE leads I have ever worked over the last 11 1/2 years.
_MDB plans for the VERY unhealthy that start at age 0, not at age 40 like most Co.'s. And it's a 15 pay.
_Comm. directly deposited into your bank account the evening of the date of the check you submitted with app.
_They also have policy holder leads they mail to people who have been on the books for 12 months or longer. When these people add on to their existing insurance you know they will STICK on the books very nicely.
LH's rates are on the high side, but I don't have a problem with replacement of my sales or closing the sale. When people say they can't afford one of the plans you show them, it's not because your premium is $10 higher than another Co. They either don't have any money or don't trust you or haven't been shown EMOTIONALLY how their family will benefit.
I know I sound biased but LH has been good to me since 1999.
Agents will fail and agents will succeed with LH or any other FE Co. out there. Success is more dependent on the agent not the Co.
Case in point: JD Easy does well with EFES and their DM leads, while a few others on this forum have complained about EFES leads. It's not the lead, it's the agent working the leads.
Of course I now also write for Sr. Life (the last 3 mos.). They are similiar to LH. And everyone in the home office from the CEO on down has YEARS experience selling FE, both face 2 face and using tele-sales.
I'm sure EFES is a good Co. also, just like any other FE Co. out there. (except Shennadoah).
Newby: Please explain to me and others how LH compared to EFES is like a glass of mud compared to a glass of fine wine.
Last edited:
- 15,319
Just to clarify, EFES is not an insurance company but a marketing company.
Rick
- 4,843
Thanks for the clarification.
- 17,069
First of all Lincoln Heritage also mails to the TV leads an offer to sign up DIRECTLY for their BEST rates because they cut out the agent. That's a little detail you forgot about.
Lincoln Heritage reps and management will say anything (true or untrue) to get agents to sign up with them. Case in point, I have a friend who was being prospected hard to sell their funeral preneed policies. When he suggested that it was offensive to the funeral home owner the way they market their final expense (like the funeral home is the enemy) he didn't think they wanted to do business with Lincoln Heritage. The Lincoln Heritage area manager actually sent him an e-mail that states "Lincoln Heritage hardly sells any of that final expense product and only Mexicans buy it." Not only is that suggesting that a whole race of people is "not clients you want" but it also is completely untrue. This manager and any LH reps I've met are bottom-feeders.
Charge backs are not deducted from your advanced commissions because LH holds out a reserve account of 15% of your commissions on EVERY paycheck. Any smart FE agent already does this for himself but gets to keep the interest and have control of the money himself.
Rates are $10 per month too high on average. That's why LH policies are SO easy to beat the rates and make additional sales when you sell for better priced companies. (I'm pretty sure they are $15 per month too high on average anyway.)
Some of the other points you make MAAY be true but are appealing only to agents who don't have two nickels to rub together. Once an agent starts making good money, he doesn't care if he is paid in 1-day or 1-week. What is more important is if you are treated fairly on renewal commissions down the road. LH takes the low road on that also. If they owe an agent less than $250 in a given month, they just keep it. It doesn't roll up. I don't know of another company that is that cheezy with renewals.
I think LH is the worst company an agent could ever become captive with. If you just use them for the occasional very ill client, I guess that is OK if you have no where else to go with those cases. I prefer my other options.
Lincoln Heritage reps and management will say anything (true or untrue) to get agents to sign up with them. Case in point, I have a friend who was being prospected hard to sell their funeral preneed policies. When he suggested that it was offensive to the funeral home owner the way they market their final expense (like the funeral home is the enemy) he didn't think they wanted to do business with Lincoln Heritage. The Lincoln Heritage area manager actually sent him an e-mail that states "Lincoln Heritage hardly sells any of that final expense product and only Mexicans buy it." Not only is that suggesting that a whole race of people is "not clients you want" but it also is completely untrue. This manager and any LH reps I've met are bottom-feeders.
Charge backs are not deducted from your advanced commissions because LH holds out a reserve account of 15% of your commissions on EVERY paycheck. Any smart FE agent already does this for himself but gets to keep the interest and have control of the money himself.
Rates are $10 per month too high on average. That's why LH policies are SO easy to beat the rates and make additional sales when you sell for better priced companies. (I'm pretty sure they are $15 per month too high on average anyway.)
Some of the other points you make MAAY be true but are appealing only to agents who don't have two nickels to rub together. Once an agent starts making good money, he doesn't care if he is paid in 1-day or 1-week. What is more important is if you are treated fairly on renewal commissions down the road. LH takes the low road on that also. If they owe an agent less than $250 in a given month, they just keep it. It doesn't roll up. I don't know of another company that is that cheezy with renewals.
I think LH is the worst company an agent could ever become captive with. If you just use them for the occasional very ill client, I guess that is OK if you have no where else to go with those cases. I prefer my other options.
- 4,843
LOL, you are somewhat mis-informed.
LH does not mail to TV leads to cut out the agents. I've worked plenty of TV leads. I have my highest closing ratios with TV leads. They may mass mail to the public to sell policies thru the mail...kinda like Globe Life and others.
About your comment on pre-need...I've never been involved in that, all I do is sell FE and teach agents to sell FE.. But it is the Area Mgr. you are referring to who is slimy, not the Co. LH. There's probably some slime balls in every group, but that's the group...not the Co.
I don't know what you mean by 15%. Never seen that figure in relationship to comm. The Co. advances (or the upline may dictate your advance%) is usually 65%. The other 35% is divided by 12 and starts paying out on month #2. This 35% covers your charge backs so your advance comm. doesn't cover charge backs. When advance comm. covers charge backs then agents skip to another Co. How many FE Co.'s mgr.'s ADVANCE 100%? Advance...not comm. Any mgr. who allows 100% advance (not comm., but advance) will be eaten alive with charge back debt, and out of the biz very soon. If FE pers. was 100% then maybe the advance could be 100%. But FE 13th month pers. is NOT 100%.
If an agent doesn't like the $250 threshold on renewals they shouldn't sign the contract. Everything is all spelled out. By the way, your renewals are not rolled up to the Co., they rolled up to whoever recruited you. Your recruiter/mgr. won't tell you that but he'll blame the Co. just to keep you in the dark.
Someone on this forum said, a few months ago, that LH had way more FE production than any other FE Co. I'm not sure how to verify that stmt.
Last edited:
- 17,069
Last time I checked the "slimeball" manager was still a salaried employee of Lincoln Heritage Life Insurance Company as he has been for many years.
35%!!!?? Wow! That's even worse than I thought. Why can't the agent just take 9-month advances of his 105% with most companies and make his own 15% reserve? I've done that for 14-years and never gone negative. In fact I pull money out of it when it gets over $15,000 which it has many times. You think it's a GOOD thing that LH is keeping the agent's money for them? What a joke.
I agree with you that agents should read their contract and if LH's contract says they can keep $3,000 per year of the agent's renewals and never give it to them ($250 per month.) and the agent signs on anyway, they have no room to complain. Many have learned this lesson the hard way. Fortunately I have avoided LH my entire career.
I guess you are right about the bulk mail of the direct product. It was probably just a lucky guess that I called in as a TV lead off the judge Judy show and used a fake name and age. They just guessed it correctly. In their defense, it didn't come until a month after the agent had a swing at me.
35%!!!?? Wow! That's even worse than I thought. Why can't the agent just take 9-month advances of his 105% with most companies and make his own 15% reserve? I've done that for 14-years and never gone negative. In fact I pull money out of it when it gets over $15,000 which it has many times. You think it's a GOOD thing that LH is keeping the agent's money for them? What a joke.
I agree with you that agents should read their contract and if LH's contract says they can keep $3,000 per year of the agent's renewals and never give it to them ($250 per month.) and the agent signs on anyway, they have no room to complain. Many have learned this lesson the hard way. Fortunately I have avoided LH my entire career.
I guess you are right about the bulk mail of the direct product. It was probably just a lucky guess that I called in as a TV lead off the judge Judy show and used a fake name and age. They just guessed it correctly. In their defense, it didn't come until a month after the agent had a swing at me.
- 4,843
9 month advance = 75% advance.
8 month advance = 65% advance.
Simple math. The group I'm with has never held an ADDITIONAL 15% reserve. I've never heard of anything like that until now. Maybe THAT upline did this because the agent had bad credit or a vector hit.
Yes, agents can get a 75% advance rather than a 65% advance if their persistency justifies it.
Why would you check to see if the slime ball mgr. still worked there, since you don't do biz with them?
And why do you watch Judge Judy on TV during the day?
Can't you make better use of your time?
Oh I almost forgot....a lot of agents who are poor time managers whine a lot about the Co., or the Mgr., or the leads, etc., or maybe watching Judge Judy.
Here's a few facts for you:
Fact #1...I wrote exclusively for LH from March 1999 to April 2010, no other Co., no other product. Over 1.5 million annualized PERSONAL production, doesn't even count my agents on my team.
Fact #2...You have written ZERO with LH and never even been appointed with them.
Fact #3...Your OPINIONS don't carry as much weight as my FACTS.
Fact #4...This is the most important one...Be careful spouting out SLANDEROUS lies about LH or any other Co. as one of their attorneys make want to "chat" with you.
Now, let's stop this pissing match, OK?
God Bless!
Last edited:
Similar threads
