Home Health Care Only

[JFBAgent]

Do you? It states that there is are .005 complaint filed in that year alone....not cumulatively.

Remember, BLC complaints have escalated in the last 5 years, one reason being the multiple rate increases since 2005. But for arguments sake, let's assume a ratio of complaints filed every year per year of .005 of over the past decade. The new number would be 50 complaints filed per 10,000 policies.

It also states policies; not clients. Important because BLC often sells "piggy-back" separate policies; the same client will have 2 policies.

Then of course, comes the escalation of complaints against BLC since 2005, so that the yearly ratio by now is almost certainly much larger.

 

[Mr_Ed]

Do you? It states that there is are .005 complaint filed in that year alone....not cumulatively.

Remember, BLC complaints have escalated in the last 5 years, one reason being the multiple rate increases since 2005. But for arguments sake, let's assume a ratio of complaints filed every year per year of .005 of over the past decade. The new number would be 50 complaints filed per 10,000 policies.

It also states policies; not clients. Important because BLC often sells "piggy-back" separate policies; the same client will have 2 policies.

Then of course, comes the escalation of complaints against BLC since 2005, so that the yearly ratio by now is almost certainly much larger.

It states that there is are .005 complaint filed in that year alone....not cumulatively.

Correction: .0005 (you are overstating the complaints by ten times).



Remember, BLC complaints have escalated in the last 5 years, one reason being the multiple rate increases since 2005.

First of all, you've provided no proof that their complaints have escalated in the last 5 years. In fact, their number of complaints for this year are lower than they were last year. You're absolutely correct that most of the complaints have to do with rate increases--NOT CLAIMS PAYMENTS.


But for arguments sake, let's assume a ratio of complaints filed every year per year of .005 of over the past decade. The new number would be 50 complaints filed per 10,000 policies.


Do you think that 50 complaints per 10,000 policies, over a 10 year period is bad? That means that, over a 10 year period, 9,950 policyholders did NOT complaint--only 50 did. How many complaints does GM get for every 10,000 cars they make? I think GM would be thrilled if they only had 50 lemons for every 10,000 cars they made.




It also states policies; not clients. Important because BLC often sells "piggy-back" separate policies; the same client will have 2 policies.


This statement contradicts your argument. If the complainant had 2 policies (both of which got rate increases), then, using your argument, they would be counted as 2 complaints.



Then of course, comes the escalation of complaints against BLC since 2005, so that the yearly ratio by now is almost certainly much larger.


You have provided no proof of a significant escalation in their complaints. But, I will give you the benefit of the doubt. Let's suppose that BL&C's complaint ratio has TRIPLED in the past 5 years. (It hasn't, but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt.)

Even if their complaint ratio has tripled in the past 5 years, then that means that 15 out of 10,000 policyholders file a complaint each year.

Over a 10 year period, that would mean that 150 policyholders out of 10,000 file a complaint (most of those complaints stemming from rate increases, not claims payments).

Do you really think that 150 complaints out of 10,000 policyholders is so terrible? That means that over a 10-year period, 9,850 policyholders DID NOT complain.

Look, I don't sell BL&C. I never have. I will never be "an exclusive" agent with any company. But, bashing a company on pure hearsay, and not gathering the facts, is simply wrong.

Yes, their complaint ratio is higher than other companies.
Yes they've had some rate increases.
But, they've also incurred a boatload of claims. ($2.3 billion in claims as of 2005 and probably well over $3 billion by now.) And for that they should be lauded.

 

[Norwayguy]

Don't just like at the bar graph, you need to look at the numbers.

.05% means .05 per 100.

.05 divided by 100 equals .0005

.0005 means 5 per 10,000.

(remember: the columns to the right of the decimal place go, tens, hundreds, thousands, ten-thousands, etc...)


The top of the column reads:


Complaints filed as a percentage of policies


The percentage is: .05%.

That means 5 complaints for every 10,000 policyholders.

get it?

Not to get between the two of you but the footnote clearly states these are only formal file complaints and the majority policyholders never file formal complaints....But this info would accrue against all of the companies.

 

[JamesCoon]

"The figures are obviously made up."





This is public info. This is info that the NAIC compiles.

Are you saying that the NAIC is making up the numbers they've published about Bankers Life's claims figures and Bankers Life's complaints?

Your article proved my point. I don't care if they have 1 complaint out of 1 million policy holders. That's still more then most companies. Your argument is hilarious and read all the other articles from the NYT on the 85 year old women who couldn't perform 3 ADLs and they denied her claims over and over again bc of missing paper work that the family sent in numerous times and all the other bs they use not to pay claims. This womens story is not the only article you will find on this subject either.

 

[Mr_Ed]

Your article proved my point. I don't care if they have 1 complaint out of 1 million policy holders. That's still more then most companies. Your argument is hilarious and read all the other articles from the NYT on the 85 year old women who couldn't perform 3 ADLs and they denied her claims over and over again bc of missing paper work that the family sent in numerous times and all the other bs they use not to pay claims. This womens story is not the only article you will find on this subject either.

"Your article proved my point. I don't care if they have 1 complaint out of 1 million policy holders. That's still more then most companies."


WTF?

What a ridiculous statement.

Please let me know which LTC insurer you represent that has one complaint for every million policyholders.

The point is, Charlie, that even the "worst LTC insurer" is doing a pretty darn good job. Rather than siding with the yellow journalists, we should be pointing to the fact that their complaint ratio, while higher than other companies, is still pretty darn good.

 

[JamesCoon]

"Your article proved my point. I don't care if they have 1 complaint out of 1 million policy holders. That's still more then most companies."


WTF?

What a ridiculous statement.

Please let me know which LTC insurer you represent that has one complaint for every million policyholders.

The point is, Charlie, that even the "worst LTC insurer" is doing a pretty darn good job. Rather than siding with the yellow journalists, we should be pointing to the fact that their complaint ratio, while higher than other companies, is still pretty darn good.

No where in your article does is say 5 out of 10,000 complain. It says they have a 5 percent complaint ratio. Please google "Bankers Life LTC complaints." That proves my point. I understand you are stickig up for the LTC industry and that's good but my only point was theres better companies out there. I sell GE, Handcock and occasionally MOO. In my opinion there is no reason to sell anyone else.

I also believe we beat this subject to death and I hope it ends.

 

[JFBAgent]

BLC is the black abyss of the long term care industry. Period.

I have 2 family member that were managers with them years ago and have had two family members go on claim with BLC Long Term care.

You have no idea of the problems, headaches, and hours it takes to get Bankers to pay a claim. The longest running LTC claim with BLC is a client of one my family members...take a guess how many times that family calls because Bankers hasn't paid the bill in 3 months?

You are a sad agent if you think there is an "acceptable" number of clients to complain...

And no, the rate increases are part of the reason of complaints...others include Bankers agents selling LTC to people who aren't LTC candidates, promising people that rates never increase, claims not being paid, etc. And as Norwayguy pointed out, most claims are never made formal. Don't even get me started on the fact that BLC also leads in both annuity and life insurance complaints as well.

To everyone else...just google Bankers and ask yourself why all that shows up are page after page of complaints and lawsuits...

Good day and I'm done...

 

[Mr_Ed]

No where in your article does is say 5 out of 10,000 complain. It says they have a 5 percent complaint ratio. Please google "Bankers Life LTC complaints." That proves my point. I understand you are stickig up for the LTC industry and that's good but my only point was theres better companies out there. I sell GE, Handcock and occasionally MOO. In my opinion there is no reason to sell anyone else.

I also believe we beat this subject to death and I hope it ends.

1) I agree that there are better companies. But, that doesn't mean that you (or any other agent) should bash or state untruths about BL&C.

2) The graphic on the article states that they have a .05% complaint percentage NOT a 5% complaint percentage. If you don't understand the difference between .05% and 5%, then how the heck are you able to figure out your commissions. Here's the link to the graphic:

The New York Times > Business > Image > Industry Snapshot


3) Googling "Bankers Life LTC Complaints" does not prove anything (except that you will believe whatever you want to believe.)
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BLC is the black abyss of the long term care industry. Period.

I have 2 family member that were managers with them years ago and have had two family members go on claim with BLC Long Term care.

You have no idea of the problems, headaches, and hours it takes to get Bankers to pay a claim. The longest running LTC claim with BLC is a client of one my family members...take a guess how many times that family calls because Bankers hasn't paid the bill in 3 months?

You are a sad agent if you think there is an "acceptable" number of clients to complain...

And no, the rate increases are part of the reason of complaints...others include Bankers agents selling LTC to people who aren't LTC candidates, promising people that rates never increase, claims not being paid, etc. And as Norwayguy pointed out, most claims are never made formal. Don't even get me started on the fact that BLC also leads in both annuity and life insurance complaints as well.

To everyone else...just google Bankers and ask yourself why all that shows up are page after page of complaints and lawsuits...

Good day and I'm done...

Have they or have they not incurred over $3 billion in LTCi claims?

How many other LTC insurers have incurred that much in LTCi claims?

All I ask is that you examine the facts and not give so much credence to the internet hearsay and the b.s. sales managers say.

 

[Norwayguy]

BLC is the black abyss of the long term care industry. Period.

I have 2 family member that were managers with them years ago and have had two family members go on claim with BLC Long Term care.

You have no idea of the problems, headaches, and hours it takes to get Bankers to pay a claim. The longest running LTC claim with BLC is a client of one my family members...take a guess how many times that family calls because Bankers hasn't paid the bill in 3 months?

You are a sad agent if you think there is an "acceptable" number of clients to complain...

And no, the rate increases are part of the reason of complaints...others include Bankers agents selling LTC to people who aren't LTC candidates, promising people that rates never increase, claims not being paid, etc. And as Norwayguy pointed out, most claims are never made formal. Don't even get me started on the fact that BLC also leads in both annuity and life insurance complaints as well.

To everyone else...just google Bankers and ask yourself why all that shows up are page after page of complaints and lawsuits...

Good day and I'm done...

Yes but my post says that that little statistic would accrue to every company and not just BLC. You might point out that because BLC seems to be more difficult to deal with that a higher percentage of dissatisfied clients file complaints....I'm just playing the devils advocate. One big thing to see is that Conseco owns both BLC and Conseco Senior and they have higher than average complaint ratios which does not speak well of either the back office claims side or possibly the front end agents misrepresenting the product or both.

 

[bdoucet]

Contential Life offers a good one here in PA. It's better then BLC.
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Read all the articles about how they don't pay there claims. Not such a good policy when there always top 3 in complaints nationwide.

Thats because clients don't understand how the elimination periods work, not because the company isn't paying the claims.
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They were your stats 5 out of 10,000 not mine (I don't know where you got them from) and I will be glad to post the sites when I get home next week. What's your deal with BLC anyway? Your really going to bat for a B rated company with bad rates.

The only reason why they're b rated is because they bailed out Conseco....